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1911Freak Regular Member
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I must say I didn't even realize that OC was an option in Ohio. In getting ready to get my CCW for Ohio I ran across the OC Boards. The things you learn when you start digging. I have never seen anyone in Ohio OC so I was surprised at the active community and geat info here. I'll be looking for an appropriate holster for my 1911 and will begin OCing where appropriate and legal. |
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color of law Regular Member
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And it may be prudent to not open carry until you have your CCL. Just some old friendly advise. |
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1911Freak Regular Member
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Any reason I should need to wait for my CCW/CHL/CCL or what ever Ohio has decided to call it as it certainly is not a requirement for OC?  |
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color of law Regular Member
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The ORC does not define the term concealed or open carry. The courts have defined it, being discernible to the average person. So if it is your word against the LEO's word, who wins??????? |
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1911Freak Regular Member
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How open do most people wear there gear just an OWB holster or something more along the lines of the blackhawk tactical? I think the blackhawk would be very obvious OWB depending on what you're wearing I guess u could get in to a question of visibility. Should have my Florida permit in a few weeks so won't be a big deal. |
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color of law Regular Member
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First off you don't give your location. Second, you say Florida license. Why not an Ohio license????? Usually someone that lives in Ohio, but gets a Florida license has a drug conviction. I'm just saying. What part of "your word against the LEO's word" don't you understand????? And "being discernible to the average person" must be conveyed to the jury... How many witnesses will you have????? Only a guess on my part, but I'll bet nonresident license held by an Ohio resident and not having an Ohio license will be going by the wayside. |
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color of law Regular Member
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I'll stand corrected, Cincinnati..... |
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1911Freak Regular Member
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Sorry no drug conviction just easier for a prior service guy to get a Florida license with half the headache, less cost, and longer license than Ohio. If Ohio ends reciprocity then I'll worry about an Ohio license but then I'll still have a Fla license that will be good in 28 states at that point ;-). My understanding is that the holster can not be considered concealment of a weapon so something like the Blackhawk should be very obvious. My location would be Cincinnati area in specific Miamitownship, Loveland, and Mason as the areas I most frequent for my activities. |
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reefteach Regular Member 
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color of law wrote: Usually someone that lives in Ohio, but gets a Florida license has a drug conviction. Do you have a link to that study? I was under the impression that Veterans accounted for most people in that situation. I OCed in the Loveland Starbucks one morning last year. It was noticed, and not a word was said. |
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1911Freak Regular Member
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My understanding is since a holster is required to open carry the weapon, ie we can't go around carrying the weapon in hand that the holster can not be considered to conceal the weapon unless the specific design of the holster was for the purposes of hiding the weapon from view. This comes from an attorney that is a friend of the family but to be on the safe side I contacted the Ohio AG for clarification on the interpretation. I also asked a friend who is a weapons instructor for the Fairfield and Colerain police depts and he said that a holster in and of itself would not be considered concealing a weapon for what that is worth. |
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color of law Regular Member
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reefteach wrote: color of law wrote:Just my personal opinion.Usually someone that lives in Ohio, but gets a Florida license has a drug conviction. |
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color of law Regular Member
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1911Freak wrote: My understanding is since a holster is required to open carry the weapon, ie we can't go around carrying the weapon in hand that the holster can not be considered to conceal the weapon unless the specific design of the holster was for the purposes of hiding the weapon from view. This comes from an attorney that is a friend of the family but to be on the safe side I contacted the Ohio AG for clarification on the interpretation. I also asked a friend who is a weapons instructor for the Fairfield and Colerain police depts and he said that a holster in and of itself would not be considered concealing a weapon for what that is worth.I don't know of no place in the ORC that requires you to use a holster to open carry. You can carry the firearm in your hand and be legal. To induce panic a crime must be comitted that induced the panic. I'm not saying carrying in your hand is a wise move. ORC 2917.11 Disorderly Conduct could be used to harass you. But that can be a legal hassel. I carry in a holster because it is the easiest way. |
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1911Freak Regular Member
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As always great info. I did open Carry at Starbucks and Kroger in Loveland this past weekend with nary an eyebrow raised other than one guy asking me if it was legal. I did have a Digi Voice Recorder on me just in case. |
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WCrawford Regular Member 
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1911Freak wrote: As always great info. I did open Carry at Starbucks and Kroger in Loveland this past weekend with nary an eyebrow raised other than one guy asking me if it was legal. I did have a Digi Voice Recorder on me just in case. With what I've been reading lately about LEOs in OH, carrying a digital recorder is a good thing. I just wonder why Ohioans aren't requiring their LEOs to know what the laws are? |
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Brian D. Regular Member 
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WCrawford wrote:
That is one of the proscribed duties of the state Attorney General's office--they have funds supplied to them specifically for the purpose of LE education. Unfortunately, the previous person elected to that position was allegedly squandering the $$ on a fleet of cars, parties, and who knows what else. His replacement was just someone keeping the seat warm for the remainder of the term. The current AG has some catching up to do in this regard, but so far it appears he isn't making this continuing ed. a real priority. If the AG ever gets around to it a lot of grief could be avoided if law enforcement dispatchers would also be brought up to speed on the legality of both open and concealed carry. |
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BB62 State Researcher
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1911Freak wrote: My understanding is since a holster is required to open carry the weapon, ie we can't go around carrying the weapon in hand that the holster can not be considered to conceal the weapon unless the specific design of the holster was for the purposes of hiding the weapon from view... I think this may be the basis of Color of Law's suggestion (about getting a CHL first): http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=22441 The thread above also involves the use of a flap holster. btw - don't count on the authorities to interpret things in your favor, and whatever you do, don't OC in Cincinnati!! hehe Suggestion - put your location in your profile here on OCDO. Last edited on Thu Mar 26th, 2009 03:43 pm by BB62 |
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spioi Regular Member 
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I have an uncle mikes sidekick ambidextrious holster. has a built in mag pocket. I haven't tried ocing yet. can't afford an attorney if the cops decide to jam me up. kinda sucks on my part to not excercise a right for fear of being convicted on some silly charge for it. |
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BB62 State Researcher
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spioi wrote: I have an uncle mikes sidekick ambidextrious holster. has a built in mag pocket. I haven't tried ocing yet. can't afford an attorney if the cops decide to jam me up. kinda sucks on my part to not excercise a right for fear of being convicted on some silly charge for it. What silly charge might that be? A man in Mt. Healthy just beat an inducing panic charge - BEFORE it ever went to trial. |
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spioi Regular Member
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I'm sure he didn't do it by himself. I'm sure it's not as easy as just going to court and the judge saying it's not against the law and you walk away. I'm sure you have to prove it's legal and you did nothing wrong. a guy in cleveland got arrested for OC and had attorneys and got stuck with a lesser charge than the original even though he was doing nothing wrong. just because it's legal doesen't mean they won't try and stick something on you. this is what spooks me about OC. |
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color of law Regular Member
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spioi wrote: I'm sure he didn't do it by himself. I'm sure it's not as easy as just going to court and the judge saying it's not against the law and you walk away. I'm sure you have to prove it's legal and you did nothing wrong. a guy in cleveland got arrested for OC and had attorneys and got stuck with a lesser charge than the original even though he was doing nothing wrong. just because it's legal doesen't mean they won't try and stick something on you. this is what spooks me about OC.The Mt. Healthy case never got close to a trial. It took 8 months for the court to wake up to the fact that a crime had not been committed. But, I guess, better late than never. The attorney in the Mt. Healthy case is a constitutional attorney. The attorneys in the Cleveland case, well, I just don't know. If you want to protect yourself send a letter/notice to the police chief letting him know that you open carry and you hope he informs all his officers that open carry is an individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio. Having a CCL would be prudent, however. |
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spioi Regular Member
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ok so I took the biggest gun I had (RI 1911 with a muzzle brake and 10 round extened mag in the holster mag pocket) and OC'd near saint bernard. went to a used tire place to get my spare fixed then went to smythe auto on tennessee. I can see how easy it would be to forget I have it on but every so often my pants slipped to remind me. |
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BB62 State Researcher
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spioi wrote: I'm sure he didn't do it by himself. I'm sure it's not as easy as just going to court and the judge saying it's not against the law and you walk away. I'm sure you have to prove it's legal and you did nothing wrong. a guy in cleveland got arrested for OC and had attorneys and got stuck with a lesser charge than the original even though he was doing nothing wrong. just because it's legal doesen't mean they won't try and stick something on you. this is what spooks me about OC. You're sure about a lot of things, evidently. You're also misinformed (or uninformed). There's a lot more to the Cleveland incident than you seem to recognize, and a lot less to the Mt. Healthy incident that you're so "sure" about. Courts don't operate the way you suppose either, btw. I suggest you stick around and study things in greater depth before making such firm statements. Also, being better informed might keep you out of more trouble than necessary if/when you are stopped while OCing. "just because it's legal doesen't mean they won't try and stick something on you. this is what spooks me about OC." - you are 100% dead-on accurate with these statements - that's why you need to take more time than you have to more fully educate yourself. |
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spioi Regular Member
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ok so I need to educate myself before I try and carry so I don't get into a mess.how much legal education is enough? I have a CCW but this isn't enough to keep me out of a jam. what else can I do without going to law school? it almost seems like more trouble than it's worth to carry a gun. I don't want to think this freedom is a hopeless endeavor for me, I'm just trying to understand the legal dangers of excercising that freedom. I can't cite codes and laws to cops who stop me like some ppl can. I just recently started carrying and while alot of ppl have been doing it for years and know their rights I'm new to this. Last edited on Sun May 10th, 2009 05:36 am by spioi |
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BB62 State Researcher
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spioi wrote: ok so I need to educate myself before I try and carry so I don't get into a mess.how much legal education is enough? I have a CCW but this isn't enough to keep me out of a jam. what else can I do without going to law school? it almost seems like more trouble than it's worth to carry a gun. A few suggestions... You will never know it all, but you need to learn enough to keep yourself out of serious trouble. You also need to be prepared to accept the consequences if you happen to be lawfully or unlawfully arrested. First thing, don't put yourself down. Second, the best thing you can do for now is to read about the experiences of others all over the US with regard to open carry. I do so by clicking on the main forum page, then clicking "Recent". The first page (or nearly so) of recent threads listed are "stickied" threads, the remainder are non-stickied threads (notice the slight background color difference). Just read, and ask questions - but don't start asking questions because you're too lazy to read (NO, I'm not suggesting you have done so). btw, I can't cite codes either like others can. Don't sweat it. An attitude of assurance, which you will gain with knowledge, goes a long way. Still, there are LEOs out there who are mis/uninformed, or intent on enforcing their beliefs rather than the law - they will act as they care to regardless of your level of knowledge, or what the law actually is. Don't count on winning on the scene, but if an unlawful arrest follows, your chances of winning meaningful compensation for the violation of your rights increases dramatically. Get a voice recorder and use it when you are OCing. Finally, there are open carry meetings every month in Dayton. Think about attending one. Last edited on Mon May 11th, 2009 02:50 pm by BB62 |
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spioi Regular Member
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I just read that semi auto pistols are illegal in cincinnati city limits as are barbed bullets( bullets that expand and have barbed tips like a flower). I been carrying a 1911. glad I didn't get stopped. now I gotta resort to a wheel gun. |
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color of law Regular Member
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spioi wrote: I just read that semi auto pistols are illegal in cincinnati city limits as are barbed bullets( bullets that expand and have barbed tips like a flower). I been carrying a 1911. glad I didn't get stopped. now I gotta resort to a wheel gun.You are kidding, right????? |
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spioi Regular Member
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I'm trying to find where I saw it. ok. I looked and saw another post saying HB347 negated the law. sorry for inducing panic mode |
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smoking357 Banned 
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color of law wrote: The ORC does not define the term concealed or open carry. The courts have defined it, being discernible to the average person. So if it is your word against the LEO's word, who wins??????? The citizen's, obviously. The cop has the burden of proof. Mere testimony isn't enough, and a cop isn't an "average person," so his opinion is skewed. Further, cops are widely known to lie to obtain convictions, so a cop should be seen as less honest than a citizen. |
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BB62 State Researcher
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spioi wrote: I just read that semi auto pistols are illegal in cincinnati city limits as are barbed bullets( bullets that expand and have barbed tips like a flower). I been carrying a 1911. glad I didn't get stopped. now I gotta resort to a wheel gun. You read wrong - not that Cincinnati won't try to tell you otherwise. Barbed bullets? How about "hollow points" - which are not illegal in Cincinnati any more than breathing is. |
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Faitmaker Regular Member
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BB62 wrote
As OC is legal in all cities in Ohio, I presume this was said "tongue in cheek"? I realize that life is a bit more difficult down in your neck of the woods, but you OC there, right? |
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BB62 State Researcher
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Faitmaker wrote: BB62 wrotebtw - don't count on the authorities to interpret things in your favor, and whatever you do, don't OC in Cincinnati!! Notice the "hehe" in the line following your partial quote (for which "..." is useful) of my previous post. |
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jabeatty Regular Member 
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color of law wrote: spioi wrote:Just slightly misinformed.I just read that semi auto pistols are illegal in cincinnati city limits as are barbed bullets( bullets that expand and have barbed tips like a flower). I been carrying a 1911. glad I didn't get stopped. now I gotta resort to a wheel gun.You are kidding, right????? Cincinnati refuses to accept that they are bound by the restrictions in 9.68. They believe that their city-specific ordinances still stand (one of the reasons they haven't bothered to take them off the books). Cincinnati ordinance 708-37 prohibits the possession or sale of semi-automatic firearms. Semi-auto handguns covered under this ordinance are those that were originally designed to accept (or are currently loaded with) magazines with a capacity of greater than fifteen rounds. A Glock 17 would fit the bill, as would a Springfield XD-9. No doubt you can think of plenty of other examples. |
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JSK333 Regular Member
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I've had no trouble with legal OC'ing in Cincinnati and surrounding township suburbs. The only issue was before our CHL law passed, when I OC'ed in my local mall and did not see the "no weapons" line on their list of 20+ rules, posted inside one entrance. But that was cleared up and I left without any legal issue. If the higher-ups in Cincy are trying to keep their illegal laws on the books, they must not have told all the LEOs about it. Because I have been in the presence of several with my G20 when OC'ing and they have not approached me. One even gave me a ride in his cruiser before the CHL law passed, in order to get to the rest of the people involved in an open carry walk in Clifton. Very cool! I know BB62 had one bad run-in in Colerain or Green Twp., but he was able to walk away with no legal issues. And that was years ago. I would think most LEOs in Cincy know what's up by this point. |
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Legba Regular Member
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I remember the Clifton open carry walk. The police were civil, if not entirely sympathetic. Well done. -ljp |
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ixtow Founder's Club Member
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color of law wrote: Usually someone that lives in Ohio, but gets a Florida license has a drug conviction. Huh? Drug convictions are no less of a disqualifier for a CCW here.... Says so right on the application, too. |
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jabeatty Regular Member
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ixtow wrote: color of law wrote:Usually someone that lives in Ohio, but gets a Florida license has a drug conviction. So Florida also has a lifetime disqualification for simple possession convictions? |
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ixtow Founder's Club Member
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jabeatty wrote: ixtow wrote:color of law wrote:Usually someone that lives in Ohio, but gets a Florida license has a drug conviction. So far as I know, but I haven't looked into it. It doesn't apply to me. ;-) The application asks if you have been convicted of any drug crime. I have one right in front of me and I'm looking at it. Why would they ask if it didn't matter? Why would you say yes if you knew?  Last edited on Thu Aug 27th, 2009 08:46 pm by ixtow |
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