|
|
|
|
|
||
| Moderated by: jpierce | ||
| Author | Post | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Mr. Y Regular Member 
|
I've heard of a recent spate of guns attacking people. Nothing frightens Mr. Y more than the prospect of machines rising up and taking over. We have to put a stop to this NOW! The Million Mom March of Northern Virginia What: An informational meeting about U.S. and Virginia gun laws Who: All concerned Virginia residents are invited Are you confused by state and federal gun laws? How does our government keep guns out of the wrong hands? Can and should gun laws be strengthened? What can we do to prevent school shootings and other gun violence? Our guest speaker will be Bob Ricker, former chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association who now advocates for sensible gun laws and is a recognized expert on federal and state regulations. Monday, May 21, at 7 p.m. Kings Park Library 9000 Burke Lake Rd. Burke, VA 22015-1683 Monday, June 4, at 7 p.m. Centreville Regional Library 14200 St. Germain Dr. Centreville, VA 20121-2299 For more information, please contact us at: mmmnova@yahoo.com Any good restaurants in the area? |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member 
|
That sounds like a great idea... but only if I'm not the only OCDO member present. It would be a great informational session and way to show people that a man with a gun isn't a murderer with a gun... Dunno if a lot of people would have the guts to pull it off though heh. |
|||||||||
|
1st freedom Regular Member
|
I know that the Brady Bunch and the Mom's o million don't like to confuse the issue's with fact's, but,, Bob Ricker was never the chief loddyist for the NRA. In the 1980's he was an asst contract attorney in the office of General Councel.He worked there for a short time and went on to do some lobbying others in the gun industy. It surprises me that they would twist the facts like that to to immplie somthing that is other than what it really is  |
|||||||||
|
vrwmiller Regular Member 
|
1st freedom wrote: I know that the Brady Bunch and the Mom's o million don't like to confuse the issue's with fact's, but,, Bob Ricker was never the chief loddyist for the NRA. Not advocating such behavior, but I wonder what it would do to his credibility in the context of this event if someone were to ask the speaker about this inconcistency. |
|||||||||
|
1st freedom Regular Member
|
Did somebody say meetup?? |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member 
|
Wow this sounds like a lot of fun! |
|||||||||
|
1st freedom Regular Member
|
I have never OC'ed in a library before. Do you think we would get some friendly looks,?  O'h and don't forget to wear your 2nd Amendment T- shirt |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
I'm absolutely serious in that if a bunch of people go, that I'd go, we just need to reach a critical mass for it to take off on its own. This sounds like a wonderful night of spirited (to put it mildly) debate and good eats. |
|||||||||
|
casullshooter Regular Member
|
I can make the Centreville event . There is a Tony's Pizza nearby , but I don't know if they stay open late enough . |
|||||||||
|
KodiakISGOOD Regular Member 
|
Mr. Y wrote: I've heard of a recent spate of guns attacking people. Nothing frightens Mr. Y more than the prospect of machines rising up and taking over. We have to put a stop to this NOW! There are a ton of place to eat at around the centreville regional library! King's Park....only about a mile or 2 from my house, glory days sports bar, austin grill, asian grill in west springfield (by the west springifield police station), Spartan's family restaurant, taco bell/kfc, mcdonalds. Im down happy carrying jason |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member 
|
instigators! lol...ain't it great! |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member 
|
unrequited wrote: That sounds like a great idea... but only if I'm not the only OCDO member present. It would be a great informational session and way to show people that a man with a gun isn't a murderer with a gun... Dunno if a lot of people would have the guts to pull it off though heh. I'm in. It wouldn't be the first time I've open-carried at a political Q&A in a library. Can't speak for the rest of the family, but I'm there. |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
I am definitely in! This is not going to fly unanswered. Everybody got your "Guns Save Lives Buttons?" |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
If I recall, one of the Ffx Co Supervisors has her office in the building or nearby the Kings Park Library. I'll bet she'll be there. Sharon Bulova, I think. This looks like a planned campaign folks. We need to be at both. Last edited on Fri May 11th, 2007 12:34 am by Citizen |
|||||||||
|
Wooley Regular Member 
|
I'll be in Centerville on the 4th. I think I'll go tactical and use the drop leg... |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
Mr. Y would like to point out that this tip off is courtesy of the OCDO famous S U P E R Moderator... As stated before, with these machines rising up to enslave humanity, we have to nip this in the bud. I've been wondering all day - If it's possible to limp wrist and malfunction a semi auto pistol then how the heck do they manage to fire off all those rounds all by themselves without malfucntioning? So what about near the burke library, any good eats? |
|||||||||
|
KodiakISGOOD Regular Member
|
Mr. Y wrote: Mr. Y would like to point out that this tip off is courtesy of the OCDO famous see my previous reply |
|||||||||
|
VAopencarry Regular Member 
|
There are a ton of restaurants within spitting distance of the C-ville library. I don't know the name of them though..  I'll get back to ya.......Last edited on Fri May 11th, 2007 04:48 am by VAopencarry |
|||||||||
|
Wooley Regular Member
|
But even if they show up, we're just going to listen and exercise our right to OC. Maybe ask a few questions. It wouldn't be a protest or assembly would it? |
|||||||||
|
KodiakISGOOD Regular Member
|
VAopencarry wrote: There are a ton of restaurants within spitting distance of the C-ville library. I don't know the name of them though.. sweetwater tavern is good eats and drinks! |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
so the first up is: Monday, May 21, at 7 p.m. Kings Park Library 9000 Burke Lake Rd. Burke, VA 22015-1683 |
|||||||||
|
Reverend73 Founder's Club Member
|
I'm there. Bubba Ron, Desertdoc, Bayboy, HankT your country needs you. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
I plan on attending the session in Burke, I will be videotaping the entire meeting and posting it online. Sorry, I'm not committed enough to join y'all in Centreville. If they allow questions and/or comments I would like to say something, so if someone else could handle the camera during that time I'd appreciate it. I'm also game for eats after the Library session. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member 
|
I will double check but I could make the Centreville one, it's right around the corner of my house. Can bring my GL2 and videotape the event as well if that's desired. |
|||||||||
|
rlh2005 Founder's Club Member
|
For those interested, here's some info on Mr. Ricker. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ricker |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Drat, I just carefully read the OP, and realized there are two! I'm thinking it's worth making the one in Burke, and then determining whether to go to Centerville. I'm always up for evening events that involve carrying guns and not doing housework |
|||||||||
|
DoubleR Activist Member 
|
rlh2005 wrote: For those interested, here's some info on Mr. Ricker. Chasin' the $$$  . The only thing he believes in, is the the Almighty Dollar. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member 
|
DoubleR wrote:rlh2005 wrote:For those interested, here's some info on Mr. Ricker. He is a lawyer! What did you expect?  |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
There is an article on the NRA website about him. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Penalty Flag on the play!! Referencing a website resource without a link! Citizen to the penalty box! Last edited on Mon May 14th, 2007 06:24 am by nakedshoplifter |
|||||||||
|
KodiakISGOOD Regular Member
|
Penalty will be assessed from the spot of the foul, automatic first down. Please reset the game clock to 01:51:00 EST  that will also be a 5 minute major penalty for above said offense.happy carrying jason Last edited on Mon May 14th, 2007 06:54 am by KodiakISGOOD |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
nakedshoplifter wrote:
Nice try fellas; there is a difference between a cite and a link. But, my other foot doesn't have any holes in it if you want to take another shot.  |
|||||||||
|
VAopencarry Regular Member
|
I agree citing without a link is not a penalty. It is just poor form bodhi, we must be neighbors, I live 'right around the corner' from the C-ville library also. Last edited on Tue May 15th, 2007 04:31 am by VAopencarry |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
It will be interesting to meet you guys, VAOpen we're probably closer than you think. Been working the wife over about carrying. She's not anti-gun, I actually took her shooting on her first birthday we were together, she shot saddam between the legs and had a huge smile on her face over at BlueRidge. Though she isn't comfortable with me carrying every day, and for employment reasons it would be a real inconvienence - can't wear at work and would have to park off site. Of course the summer vacation trip she's got no problem with - still trying to figure that one out, probably because her dad and brother do. I'll only be armed with my videocamera, lol. I read somewhere else that someone edited out names and addresses from the previous meeting. Does anyone know if I'd have to get approval to video tape the meeting? |
|||||||||
|
VApatriot Regular Member 
|
HELL NO THEY DON'T! NOT IN MY TOWN! I have a class on Monday night, but if I get out early enough, I will be at Kings Park Library, and I will check out every book on guns that I can find! Last edited on Thu May 17th, 2007 08:05 pm by VApatriot |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
From the latest VCDL Alert:With one exception. A woman who was with the "Million Mom March" was acting obnoxious and doing some heckling (anyone surprised by that?). The police kept an eye on her. At one point she went around the rope and rushed into the building, right up to the door of the meeting room. Dennis O'Connor followed her and was prepared to alert the police if she began disrupting the meeting, but she listened for a few minutes and then returned back outside. And... When the winner had been drawn, the MMM protester yelled in an obnoxious voice that all the winners were going to be inside the building and that the whole thing was rigged |
|||||||||
|
vrwmiller Regular Member
|
I am seriously considering attending the 6/4 meeting in Centreville. Are there any of you who will definitely be there? |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
I wonder how the Brady Bunch would react if we provided her photo and statements that she was trying to get a handgun!! |
|||||||||
|
Bubba Ron Regular Member 
|
Reverend73 wrote: I'm there. Bubba Ron, Desertdoc, Bayboy, HankT your country needs you.Only if I can ride SHOTGUN |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
Ok guys, the first one is right around the corner. Monday, May 21, at 7 p.m. Kings Park Library 9000 Burke Lake Rd. Burke, VA 22015-1683 A good firend pointed out that we should have some good questions ready for our certified expert. Who's coming? Do we want to arrange any carpooling/bikepooling? |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
I plan to go. I'll be leaving from the Ft Belvoir area and driving up the FFX county parkway to Burke Lake road. FWIW, I'll be wearing NO VCDL identifiers or OCDO identifiers. Only my .380. I don't want this to be seen as a "retaliation" or "rebuttal" or any other perjorative word the group may want to use against us. I'm an ordinary citizen who wants to hear what is being said. |
|||||||||
|
rlh2005 Founder's Club Member
|
I want to attend but I have to see how my Monday goes. I'm presently at work upgrading the Oracle database for and applying updates to the client's financial system. So, my Monday may be putting out unexpected fires if we missed something during testing. |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
Tess, I'm the same area; not sure if the wife is going or not, but you're welcome to ride with us .. .or me. |
|||||||||
|
KodiakISGOOD Regular Member
|
Tess wrote: I plan to go. I'll be leaving from the Ft Belvoir area and driving up the FFX county parkway to Burke Lake road. Tess, Get off 7100 at rolling and you can take a left onto burke lake road and the library is the next right after the bank of america on the corner. Happy Carrying, Jason p.s. i dont know if i'll make it, because i dont know how this service i need to do on monday is going to go, hopefully this person knows that divorce papers are coming their way. |
|||||||||
|
casullshooter Regular Member
|
vrwmiller wrote: I am seriously considering attending the 6/4 meeting in Centreville. Are there any of you who will definitely be there? I am planning to go to the C'ville meeting , I will be wearing boots to keep all the BS we will be hearing off of my clothes . |
|||||||||
|
KodiakISGOOD Regular Member
|
casullshooter wrote: vrwmiller wrote:I am seriously considering attending the 6/4 meeting in Centreville. Are there any of you who will definitely be there? Gortex? |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Tess, Get off 7100 at rolling and you can take a left onto burke lake road and the library is the next right after the bank of america on the corner. Happy Carrying, JasonThanks. That helps. I probably would have figured that once I turn on the GPS unit, but it helps me visualize. So who are the definites for tomorrow? Just me and Mr. Y? And a couple of possibles? |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
I'll be there. |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Mr. Y wrote: Tess, I'm the same area; not sure if the wife is going or not, but you're welcome to ride with us .. .or me. Sorry, Mr. Y. Forgot to respond. Health and weather permitting, I'll be taking the motorcycle, which means solo, but indulges one of my passions <grin>. See you there. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Wow, I knew this was in my neck of the woods, but I didn't realize how close this was to my house! I mapped it just now in prep for driving there tonight and it's literally right down the road from where I live! Tess made a good suggestion about not wearing clothing with gun group affiliated logos. I urge everyone to heed that advice. This is not a VCDL or OCDO sanctioned event. You are a private citizen attending a meeting in the public interest. Also, everyone needs to be prepared mentally about how to respond to questions from rabid anti's. Keep your cool and answer slowly. Nobody will fault you for taking a few seconds to think about your response. Why do you feel the need to show up here intimidating us with a handgun at your hip? I want you to know that I have called the police on my cellphone and they will be arriving shortly! Handguns only serve one purpose, to kill! When have you felt the need to use your handgun for self defense? Why can't you let the police handle crime? That's what they are here for. When responding to some of the sillier comments, don't be afraid to not answer the question. If you are asked something that is so totally weird, be polite and say "That question is irrational, I don't know what kind of response you expect from it" or something along those lines. Sometimes not giving an answer is better than getting drawn into an argument... which is what they will be seeking. All answers should be grounded in fact, not opinion. Be safe everyone. |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
I too will be there. |
|||||||||
|
chefjustin Regular Member 
|
I will be there Are we going to eat before or after? and where? Chef |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Since I have to feed the family on the "before" side, I'd love to go for coffee or icecream or dessert of some type afterward. If the decision is "before" then I'll probably have to pass. It will be difficult enough to get out of the house by 6:15. |
|||||||||
|
chefjustin Regular Member
|
OK i have looked around the area and hear is my plan and all are welcome to it. Around 6 o'clock go to Caribou Coffee Address: 8948 Burke Lake Rd, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: (703) 426-4660 Then to the Library Following the meeting we can decide on a place to eat here is a list of local spots Subway Sandwiches & Salads Domino's Pizza Outback Steakhouse And many more See ya there CHEF |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
Health and weather permitting, I'll be taking the motorcycle, which means solo, but indulges one of my passions <grin>. See you there. Finally... another moto. I'm thinking that the 2 wheel option would be superior as well.  |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
Coffee sounds great. Going dress + shoulder carry again like last week's giveaway. I should get me an, "Asian with a gun" t-shirt like danbus... God knows I've already gotten the looks from people already. |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
I've printed out a few copies of BobCav's VA Gun Laws sheets, the statistics Mike presented on gun sales, and some CDC data that the anti's are quoting. IF I have to ask a question, I want to have facts at my fingertips. Oh, I also printed out the Smoking Guns link from Bob Ricker entry in wikipedia, in which Ed Bradley pointed out he resigned "under pressure" from the NRA. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
unrequited wrote: Coffee sounds great. +1 /w video camera! |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
I may make it to coffee around 6:30 or so. can I assume ya'll will be there until just before meeting time? |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
I'll be there a little earlier; Black ZX14 |
|||||||||
|
chefjustin Regular Member
|
Tess we well wait for you. Drive safe Chef |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
leaving alexandria in about 30, be at coffee by 6... gonna be hungee 'cause i haven't eaten since this morning, hopefully they have num nums. (sorry, babytalk w/the g/f on the phone rubs off sometimes) |
|||||||||
|
KodiakISGOOD Regular Member
|
update.... forgive me for any typo's, im typing this on my treo smartphone. (waiting at a law office to pick up some divorce papers to serve some poor guy in chantilly with.) I walked in CC at about 7:30; i was running a little late i had to run home and pick out what to wear, cause i didnt have anything to carry. WHY? i had to serve someone some child custody papers in dc earlier today. stupid dc..... Anyway, the MMM thing went on without any police. I was going to join the group for dinner at Austin Grill in Springfield, but i have to do above said divorce paper service of poor guy. Hopefully it is going well. There were a few folks from http://www.virginia1774.org (very nice guys). I sat behind unrequited, next to chefjustin, and I had Tess nearly take my breath away with her answer as to "why a semi automatic pistol?" Mr. Y very nice bike BTW!! I was the guy with the black ball cap, gray polo, black pants, and with the snub nose k frame. Just a little FYI so some of you now have a name to put with a face....kinda excited that there was another person carrying a wheel gun. Just wanted to share a little with ya'll, but ill the majority of the telling up to someone else. Happy Carrying, Jason |
|||||||||
|
chefjustin Regular Member
|
It was a good turn out but we need a stronger showing at the one next week. We really need to meet before and discus some of the issues and people we will encounter at it. There well be other post with more info on tonight and what to do fro the next one. Nice job tonight to all who where there. Chef |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
Nice to meet all you happy people ( you guys DO remember Droopy, don't you? )... Wow. We had just as many as they did. I thought there was a million of them, it turns out there are really only 11. And they are RUDE. Not just impolite, but downright NASTY RUDE! In one instance, one of the females ( Lady would be an inaccurate description ) declared DON'T YOU TAKE ANY OF MY COOKIES. Ok, she wasn't talking to Mr. Y. Nevertheless, visitors to Mr. Y's house will tell you that if you are so unwise as to get between Mr. Y, and a snack, you become a potential food source. When told, Mrs. Y was as incensed as she was shocked that I had not actually gnawed one of their arms off. As both a precaution, and a public service, Mrs. Y has vowed to provide snacks for those of us who are unable to sample those provided for the "other" crowd. Some of those MMM's make Gollum seem like a nice guy, they were just belligerent. Mr. Y's mom would wash Mr. Y's mouth out with soap for behaving like that in public, adulthood notwithstanding. They should be ashamed of themselves. On a side note, too bad dinner didn't last a little longer, as Mrs. Y has seized the plasma TV and is watching the Bachelor ... <sigh> So if anyone else is able, we should chip in and make some eats for the next MMMeetup ... Maybe we could make some gun shaped cookies or something. Yes, I'm being serious I think it would be a big hit, kind of a 'kill them with kindness' approach. |
|||||||||
|
KodiakISGOOD Regular Member
|
sorry that i missed dinner! lemme know how dinner went! Happy Carrying Jason |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Kodiak, sorry I didn't get to meet you. Naked, I'm having real problems with the scan. Seems the .tif files are more than 10Mb, and my system won't let them through. Gmail has been trying since last night. Tonight I'll re-scan as .jpg and see if that works. Hope you got the first 4. BTW - here's the quote of the night. Bricker said VT, and I quote "denied students the ability to bring guns to campus." So if Cho didn't have the ability, our news media made the story up to scare us????? |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Mr. Y, where does one get a gun shaped cookie cutter? My wife would probably giggle at the thought of me bringing them, much less me stumbling through the motions of trying to make them.... |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Tess wrote: Hope you got the first 4. Tess, I got the first four. |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
Mrs. Y responds: http://www.victortradingco.com/guns.htm |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
It would probably be safer for all of us attending if I just went to Costco.... |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
The next meeting topic has been changed!! It's no longer an "informational meeting about gun laws" but a meeting about "gun violence prevention". See press release here: http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=82566&cat=104 |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: The next meeting topic has been changed!! s'OK. I'm even more concerned about gun violence. They biggest reason I carry is because I'm concerned about gun violence being directed at myself, family, or friends. Knives and other weapons are a close second. Last edited on Fri Jun 1st, 2007 10:33 pm by Citizen |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: The next meeting topic has been changed!! As I told the woman behind me last week, I'm very concerned about stopping gun violence. I'll be there, with bells on...... okay, don't get scared;  it's only an expression. |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
I too am troubled at the prospect of inanimate objects gaining sentience... <shiver> Remember guys (and gals) if you want cookies or drinks, be sure to bring some for the gathering because unlike us, the million misguided maids are not hospitable. Mrs. Y has vowed to bake, bake, bake and show those shrews a thing or two ;-) |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
Mr. Y wrote: I too am troubled at the prospect of inanimate objects gaining sentience... <shiver> Motorcycles excepted, of course. |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Anyone want to meet for coffee/eats prior? |
|||||||||
|
casullshooter Regular Member
|
Pick a location & I will try to make it . |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
: ( looks like I won't be able to make this after all, g/f needs me to take her to an optomitrist followup at 5, and with traffic I probably won't make it out there 'til 8 or later. I REALLY wanted to go again too. |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
Stop by on the way back, G/F is welcome there too! Plus, if you don't come, you'll miss out on the cookies... |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
There is a Starbucks in the Centrewood Plaza, VERY close to the library. It's in the shopping center a few doors down from Giant. The address is 14155 St. Germain Dr. Centreville, VA 20121. I'll be there at 6. Actually, I'll probably be there much earlier, since this location is only less than 10 minutes from my office. |
|||||||||
|
Scheetz Regular Member 
|
Well I was geared up to come to this meeting but my father informed me today that a good family friend is coming to town and they want to got out to dinner with them on the 4th. So, I am going to have to pass on the Sbucks meeting and the MMM. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Tess, I need a vente carmel macchiatto before this meeting like I need a hole in my head but I'll be there around 6:30 ish. I'd like to get to the library and get a good spot for my camera. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
You're bringing a camera too? |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher 
|
I've been staying out of this discussion so far but since this is that last chance to suggest something, I'll do it now. I suggest that he OCDC/VCDL group that shows up at the Centreville library tonight take the opportunity to apologize to the MMMers for "barging in" on their meeting last time and causing whatever disruption they caused. I suggest you do it right away, at the first opportunity where the entire group can receive the message. It would be a real good thing to apologize. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
I'd openly carry two Nekid but I don't want to intimidate anyone with my arsenal |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
HankT wrote: I've been staying out of this discussion so far but since this is that last chance to suggest something, I'll do it now. How is it "barging in" when they are open to the public? |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
bohdi wrote: HankT wrote:I've been staying out of this discussion so far but since this is that last chance to suggest something, I'll do it now. That's a fair question. In the same manner as if a bunch of antis showed up at a VCDL/or OCDC formal gathering with four or five hospital patients with gunshot wounds on gurneys who then proceeded to interrupt PVC, MS, or JP during the proceedings with details and questions about why they got shot. How's that for an image? Does that fully answer your question, bohdi? Last edited on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 07:26 pm by HankT |
|||||||||
|
1st freedom Regular Member
|
Should you apologize for "barging" into OCDO and telling people that you don'tagree with OC and then criticizing them when they give there reasons for doing so |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
1st freedom wrote: Should you apologize for "barging" into OCDO and telling people that you don'tagree with OC and then criticizing them when they give there reasons for doing so Yes. I think. But it depends on what you are meaning. Tell me more about the example you have in mind. |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
That's a fair question. No, it's not even remotely similar to what you describe. In fact, the million mad maids do show up to protest us, using props, wailing and screaming like a banshee about so called gun violence, and the need to pass more laws on top of more laws on top of the existing laws to make it extra, super-duper illegal instad of just illegal to <insert any lawful conduct by gun owners here> so they can stop the guns from attacking us. It never ends. No matter what they get, there's always a next step. They were at the BBG and behaved similarly, albeit on a smaller scale since there were far fewer of them. None of us here who are not sworn officers object when open carrying LEO's come barging into a fast food restaurant without a call, reasonable suspicion that a crime is taking place, or is about to take place or probable cause to believe that a wanted felon or misdemeanant is actually inside the building... Instead, we usually just nod and continue about our lawful business. Shouldn't the LEOs apologize to the patrons for disrupting their meals, <Staunton> where women and children are likely be present?</Staunton> Nobody here owes the million mad maids an apology. They however do owe us an apology for years of lies, deceit, scheming and planning to erode the very freedom that many of us swore an oath to uphold. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
I'm sorry, a bit confused here. I carried a camera into a public meeting and asked If I could film it. I was screeched at by middle aged lady. An old man invited me to "shoot anyone I want". The same "screech lady" told my friends to "shut up" when we corrected falsehoods that could land someone in jail. After the meeting Screech chased me out into the hall and made a scene demanding literature back from me. I conducted myself in a professional adult manner the whole evening. What bad behavior am I apologizing for? |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
It would if you could prove that people that post here and actually attended this public form behaved as badly as you imply, and were a purposeful disruption to spreading the message that they were trying to impart upon their audience. However I see no evidence such behaviour was present, and submit to you the opposite was the case: I submit for your review counselor: Exhibit A http://tinyurl.com/2v376h Gun Rights, Gun Control Showdown Gun rights and gun control advocates faced off during a recent meeting of the Million Mom March’s Northern Virginia chapter at the Kings’ Park Library in Burke last week. The Million Mom March, a gun control advocacy group, had set up a meeting to allow former National Rifle Association lobbyist Bob Ricker speak about gun laws. Approximately two dozen attendees showed up with about half carrying their guns openly and visibly, said Laura Sonnenmark, a member of the Million Mom March. Gun rights advocates in attendance at the meeting said they were interested in Ricker’s speech and whether he would advocate denying gun owners their right to bear arms. "We are always interested in the thoughts of gun prohibitionists. Basically, ‘know thy enemy,’ and that is about it," said James Kadison, a member of the Virginia Citizens Defense League who attended the event. But members of the Million Mom March found the meeting attendees who had their guns exposed intimidating, said Sonnemark. "I just thought it was very cruel because we do have members who have been victims of gun violence or lost family members to gun violence," she said. While your example/image is quite visual, effective, and dramatic, as long as they were polite, waited their turn to be heard, I would have no problem with them speaking personally. It's a public meeting. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: I'm sorry, a bit confused here. I carried a camera into a public meeting and asked If I could film it. I was screeched at by middle aged lady. An old man invited me to "shoot anyone I want". The same "screech lady" told my friends to "shut up" when we corrected falsehoods that could land someone in jail. After the meeting Screech chased me out into the hall and made a scene demanding literature back from me. I conducted myself in a professional adult manner the whole evening. What bad behavior am I apologizing for? The part you left out of the above description, of course. Go back and read my post again. Nah, here it is for your ready reference: I suggest that he OCDC/VCDL group that shows up at the Centreville library tonight take the opportunity to apologize to the MMMers for "barging in" on their meeting last time and causing whatever disruption they caused. I suggest you do it right away, at the first opportunity where the entire group can receive the message. It would be a real good thing to apologize. I'm telling you all that a sincere (gotta be sincere) apology will be a good thing at the meeting tonite. Assuming there even is a meeting. Last edited on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 08:22 pm by HankT |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
bohdi wrote: Tess, I need a venti triple cappucino to take with me. That way, instead of yelling "bullpuckey" I can take a sip of my coffee. Well, at that rate I might need three. |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
HankT wrote: I've been staying out of this discussion so far but since this is that last chance to suggest something, I'll do it now. Hank, I've ignored you successfully so far, and will do so in the future. I have one sentence for you, first. I will NOT apologize when I did nothing wrong. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
I refuse to apologize for a wrong that never occurred (except in Hanks mind). 1: We didn't "barge in". 2: Nobody was disruptive. We asked minimal questions and they got angry. "Pro" MMM attendees asked a multitude of questions or made comments and they were respected. The difference was that the "pro" comments supported their goals and mission, so they favored that. This was not a democratic meeting. Hank, do you live in VA? I'm guessing NO. Please refrain from asking good people to apologize for things you dreamed up and were not a witness to. |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
I'm telling you all that a sincere (gotta be sincere) apology will be a good thing at the meeting tonite. Assuming there even is a meeting. When parents discipline children for misbehavior, should the parents apologize to their children for enacting their punitive measures? If they did, what message would that send to the child or children? Would it send the message that the parental units "really didn't want to punish" them and perhaps lead them to the conclusion that their behavior wasn't all that offensive in the first place? It seems to me - and I'm sure you'll correct me - that you're advocating that we collectively reinforce their negative behavior by apologizing to them for having the outright nerve to be in the same place as them. Should we also eat only at designated restaurants, drink from designated fountains, and sit in the back of the bus too? |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Tess wrote: HankT wrote:I've been staying out of this discussion so far but since this is that last chance to suggest something, I'll do it now. I did not suggest that you apologize. I suggested that the group apologize. I still do. It would be a good thing for the OCDC/VCDL group to apologize. It's just common sense. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: I refuse to apologize for a wrong that never occurred (except in Hanks mind). Of course, the group "barged in." We had that discussion in another thread. Tess was involved in that one. Of course, the group was disruptive. Just ask the MMMers. You describe the part of the group's behavior where you were NOT disruptive, leaving out the part of the group's behavior where it was. Straw man. Finally, what authority to you have for asking me to refrain from making a suggestion? I'll make it again: I suggest that he OCDC/VCDL group that shows up at the Centreville library tonight take the opportunity to apologize to the MMMers for "barging in" on their meeting last time and causing whatever disruption they caused. I apologize if it's too simple or redundant for you, NS. |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
HankT wrote: I suggest that he OCDC/VCDL group that shows up at the Centreville library tonight take the opportunity to apologize to the MMMers for "barging in" on their meeting last time and causing whatever disruption they caused. Since you weren't there, I'll respectfully suggest you STFU. As Tess and others have said, I'm not apologizing for doing nothing wrong. If you think it was such a problem, you can go apologize on your own behalf. I went not as an OCDO member, not as a VCDL member, but as an independent thinker who wanted to at least give them a shot to hear what they had to say. Useless b.s. is what I came away with. I just gave you yours as well. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
unrequited wrote: HankT wrote: I suggest that he OCDC/VCDL group that shows up at the Centreville library tonight take the opportunity to apologize to the MMMers for "barging in" on their meeting last time and causing whatever disruption they caused.
I went not as an OCDO member, not as a VCDL member... Well, I never!  I guess you win that one! Such talk coming from such a cute avatar. Did anyone ever tell you you are quite the conversationalist? Don't lose any sleep over it...  BTW, unrequited, were you one of the ones who raised their hands when Ricker asked who was a VCDL member? Hmmm? Last edited on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 09:48 pm by HankT |
|||||||||
|
roscoe13 Regular Member 
|
unrequited wrote: Since you weren't there, I'll respectfully suggest you STFU. +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000! |
|||||||||
|
mlands Regular Member
|
I was at the Kings Park Library Meeting and sat quiet listening to all the misinformation the guest speaker was giving out. The OCDC/VCDL folks present were very civil. OCDC/VCDL members were soon not allowed to speak. At our meetings we allow anyone to speak as long as it is civil and rebuttle allowed. We are a lot more civil than that left wing MMM brainwashed gun control group was to us. Think of a room full of Hillary Clintons. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
mlands wrote: I was at the Kings Park Library Meeting and sat quiet listening to all the misinformation the guest speaker was giving out. The OCDC/VCDL folks present were very civil. OCDC/VCDL members were soon not allowed to speak. At our meetings we allow anyone to speak as long as it is civil and rebuttle allowed. We are a lot more civil than that left wing MMM brainwashed gun control group was to us. Think of a room full of Hillary Clintons. The only thing that I would take issue with is interupting the speakers (if I read it correctly). I know it was with the truth but I think we might do better with being exceptionally polite. Raising our hands to be called on if we wish to speak and so on. Makes us look even more reasonable and may help to keep their minds open enough to hear what we are saying. If you look at all this from their point of view, the VCDL presence at their meeting was excessive and it was frightening. From what I have read, if the armed citizens did not outnumber them, it was close. So how would they see such a presence of armed strangers that virtually took over their meeting, and certainly had an impact on the evenings agenda? |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
I wonder how the MMMers are preparing for their meeting tonight? I wonder what little tricks and tactics they have up their sleeves to be reactive and retaliatory toward the expected group of OCers? I bet they do something special. Please, to the entire group that is going to Centreville tonight, don't fall for any of their tricks, like last time. Remember, in a way, you're representing not only OCDC/VCDL but also all law-abiding carrying citizens in VA and everywhere. I hope all goes well tonight but I'm just having this feeling that there will be some bad feelings again. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
More information and video to follow, but....... The MMM shut down their meeting tonight before it even started!! They asked me to sign a waiver stating my recording could only be used for private purposes, I refused. They met privately outside the meeting room for 10 minutes before asking me to sign the waiver again. I refused again so they closed the meeting and apologized to everyone who showed up. |
|||||||||
|
longwatch Founder's Club Member 
|
Wow that makes no sense at all, glad we got proof. |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
Damn! I wonder what their official excuse will be? A cancellation due to lawful recording of the meeting could constitute a failure to maintain an open public meeting. I hope they realize that to maintain their tax-exempt status, they MUST keep their meetings open to the public AND in a public place AND you will be allowed to tape ANYWHERE they hold a meeting! They are required to publish the location and time and cannot deny access to anyone. Moving it to DC would prevent anyone from carrying at the meeting, but they revealed that they're more afraid of the camera (and the exposure of how they spread their lies) than they are about guns!!! I guess we now know their true agenda isn't about guns, just mind control and using hoplophobia to stuff their pitiful little agenda down people's throats. Well done Nekkid! I'd say that though you went there to find out some things about how they think and operate, by refusing to let you tape they revealed so much more! |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: More information and video to follow, but....... I take it the group did not apologize to the MMMers at the first opportunity? You know, it was inevitable there was gonna be bad blood. Just common sense... A group apology might have allowed everyone to go back to square one. I don't know why it is so hard to apologize. They did it... I'm interested, too, in all the details. Particularly why the waiver wasn't signed. That would have been the correct thing to do--sign it and film. Then hash out the legalities without a time constraint. NS, you got taken advantage of again, same as the first time when they inappropriately maneuvered you into not taping that meeting. Oh, well. I look forward to the writeup. I hope NS does again. The first one he did was very good reporting. |
|||||||||
|
VAopencarry Regular Member
|
WOW!! What is up with that?? Are they afraid of being publicly discredted? hmmm. I had mostly given them the benefit of doubt, believing they were uninformed and misguided. However, this action makes think they know they are full of poo poo and do not want to be exposed. hmmmmmmmm............ |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Edit. Julie O'Donoghue's e-mail box "exceeds allowable limits". Guess I'll have to call her tomorrow. BobCav wrote: Damn! I wonder what their official excuse will be? A cancellation due to lawful recording of the meeting could constitute a failure to maintain an open public meeting. Their point is that their paid speaker (Ricker quote: "I'm paid to speak") did not wish to appear on tape. Any individual has the right to request not to appear on tape. Any person has the right not to speak, if he chooses not to. I just hope he wasn't paid to speak tonight, as then he reneged. Not that it would be an issue with the group who contracted him. Wait til you see the video. I was amused. I also pointed out that the newspaper said the meeting was open to the public. They seem to have agreed among themselves to move it to a private home. Mr Fairfax County Police Officer (did we mention they had an officer there?) had to tell them he couldn't attend if they held it at a private home. Mr. Ricker refused their offer to move the meeting to a private home TONIGHT. Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 03:29 am by Tess |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
We need to get the word spread across the land! We need to mobilize forces everywhere armed with this new intel IMMEDIATELY!! We need people across America willing to find out when and where EVERY SINGLE MMM meeting will be and have people show up with camcorders!! Blessent mon cœur d'une langueur monotone!!! John has a long moustache. I repeat: John has a long moustache!! |
|||||||||
|
Tomahawk Regular Member 
|
Was anyone OC'ing this time? |
|||||||||
|
vrwmiller Regular Member
|
Tomahawk wrote: Was anyone OC'ing this time? I was not. I did not notice any OC. I also found it ironic that they were making the pro-rights individuals sign a waiver/agreement that included provisions that the recording would not be spliced or edited. Like the pro-rights activists need to do that anyway. Unedited film would have been enough to discredit the meeting. Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 03:30 am by vrwmiller |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Tomahawk wrote: Was anyone OC'ing this time? No. Chris had a shoulder holster that was visible IF you knew what you were looking at. |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
BobCav wrote: We need to get the word spread across the land! We need to mobilize forces everywhere armed with this new intel IMMEDIATELY!! We also need to to get the legal angles to a VCDL lawyer, Philip Van Cleave (Jim Sollo causes him extra work at the General Assembly) and, NRA in case it has nat'l implications for Bob Ricker's organization. Also, NRA so they can make hay with it. I hope you got that "move to a private home" on tape. Ricker's refusal to go along with it might be his ticket out of an IRS problem for his gun-control organization; but it might have other angles like unwillingness to have a meeting open to the public in the first place. Here's our chance to impede their progress folks. Lets make hay. HankT, I'll write later about the seeming change from willingness to explore "talking." Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 03:33 am by Citizen |
|||||||||
|
vrwmiller Regular Member
|
BTW, of those that attended, anyone know who the asian female was that was filming? Was she associated with MMM or Mr. Ricker or anything? Was she asked to sign this waiver as well? |
|||||||||
|
Pa. Patriot State Researcher 
|
HankT wrote: I take it the group did not apologize to the MMMers at the first opportunity? Must you @#$% on every thread with your egotistical blabbering? Maybe you missed the part about everyone disagreeing with you. It's getting so very old, Hank. |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
Mr. & Mrs Y extend our apologies collectively to OCDO members for not being there. This one - the whole day actually - just completely got away from me... And, it's left me with 2 tins of cookies.... I'm glad the meeting went "well" but disappointed that the MMM didn't apologize to us. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Pa. Patriot wrote: HankT wrote:I take it the group did not apologize to the MMMers at the first opportunity? I'm not sure I understand your points, Pa. Patriot. I made some fair comments and whether "everyone" disagrees is really not, um, pertinent. Now what was that thing where someone keeps trying the same thing over and over, expecting different results? I forget what that was again....  |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
Now what was that thing where someone keeps trying the same thing over and over, expecting different results? I forget what that was again.... <sigh> We've covered this already... Traffic cop. |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
HankT wrote:BTW, unrequited, were you one of the ones who raised their hands when Ricker asked who was a VCDL member? Hmmm? ...is it of any relevance? No, and no, because I wasn't a VCDL member at that time (I've since signed up if you must know). The rest of my previous comment stands. At tonight's meeting I was not the Chris with CC'ed shoulder holster, I wasn't in attendance at all due to eye doc stuff, and by the details of things, I WISH I could have been there just to see the hillarity. It's unfortunate that the organizers of this MMM meeting & Bob wouldn't put up with being "shot" at (cinematically speaking of course). > ) I can't wait to see the video which was shot. I plan on putting it on 4x speed and adding "Yakety Sax" to the background... Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 04:09 am by unrequited |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
unrequited wrote: HankT wrote: Sorry, unrequited. I should have used his screen name, to avoid this confusion. By the way - they announced that someone was there last time with TWO guns. I think they meant you. Somehow that flashlight you carry strikes fear into the heart of many - reporters, mad mothers, probably others.... |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
HankT wrote:...SNIP Strawman! |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
Tess wrote:Sorry, unrequited. I should have used his screen name, to avoid this confusion. Oh no worries, I wish I had been in attendance, and it was a pleasure last meeting to just sit and talk with all of you guys before. I got more out of that half hour than the hour which followed it. That makes #2 for flashlight / gun mistake heh. The first was "Khaaaaaaaaaan!" (or the reporter who everybody else here calls Khan). So it was a 10 minute meeting while they deliberated on how to avoid being filmed and then it was cancelled? Anything else happen of note (socially?) at dinner afterwards? |
|||||||||
|
Pa. Patriot State Researcher
|
HankT wrote:I'm not sure I understand your points, Pa. Patriot. I made some fair comments and whether "everyone" disagrees is really not, um, pertinent. You made comments about something you weren't qualified (IE: present) to make. Group disagreed. You continue to push the issue. And push, and push. HankT then wrote: Now what was that thing where someone keeps trying the same thing over and over, expecting different results? I forget what that was again.... Well, you keep trying "over and over" to get someone to apologize to someone over something they didn't do.... Ironic considering your comment. Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 04:16 am by Pa. Patriot |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Pa. Patriot wrote: I'm not sure I understand your points, Pa. Patriot. I made some fair comments and whether "everyone" disagrees is really not, um, pertinent. OK, gents. Let's lay it on the line. As long as anyone responds to HankT's moronic posts, they will continue. 'Nuff said? |
|||||||||
|
longwatch Founder's Club Member
|
So what was their turnout like? |
|||||||||
|
Pa. Patriot State Researcher
|
Tess wrote: OK, gents. Let's lay it on the line. As long as anyone responds to HankT's moronic posts, they will continue. Sorry, I agree, I'll stop. |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
Mr. Y (& cookie baking Mrs.), thanks for letting us know about these two meetings. Curiously how'd you find out about them, and would you please post any more information about these soon-to-be-underground meetings if you get word? |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
I was tipped off by an anonymous Super Moderator |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
Yes! Multiple kudos! I am willing to further show my gratitude by helping you eat the cookies. |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
HankT wrote:...SNIP Hank, I would submit that you cannot bring emotions to the table, they have no place in negotiations or in business. Period. When asked about their wounds or about the lost loved ones to gun violence, I'd have to quote Tommy Lee Jones in "The Fugitive": "I don't care." Your wounds and/or loss are terrible, and your pain and grief is understandable, but have no relevance with regard to this meeting/discussion and are not a factor in the denial of the right of self defense of millions of people trying to prevent the same fate for themselves and their families. They are statistically insignificant and/or acceptable losses. If you don't think that's how things work, look at the insurance industry re: product liability. Sometimes it's cheaper to pay for a few deaths than to fix the product. It's basically the whole "If I'm not (wo)man enough to carry a gun and be responsible for my own life, then nobody should." argument. And isn't that where the loudest argument is coming from? From those most likely to NOT be responsible for their own lives, who want the government to control more and more of theirs and everyone's lives? The very thought makes me shudder. Something that not everyone here knows is that a couple years ago my 3 teenage daughters were held at gunpoint during a robbery of a Virginia Beach FoodLion when two of them were picking up the third at midnight after her shift was over. Believe me, if anything happened to any one of them, I'd own a WHOLE lot more guns than I do now. Not less. And two of the three want to learn how to shoot and carry. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
HankT wrote:nakedshoplifter wrote:More information and video to follow, but....... Well at least we are finally finding out what areas of our rights you would be willing to compromise on. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
UPDATE: I recognized the man (in attendance tonight) from the Burke meeting who invited us to "shoot anyone you want". It was none other than Jim Solo from Virginians For Public Safety. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
unrequited wrote: HankT wrote: Do you mean the "Since you weren't there, I'll respectfully suggest you STFU" part, too? I was wondering. How do you suggest that "respectfully?" And, er, since you didn't attend the second meeting, won't you have to look in the mirror and say that part to yourself if you comment on the second meeting? Kind of ironic... unrequited wrote: I can't wait to see the video which was shot. I plan on putting it on 4x speed and adding "Yakety Sax" to the background... I'm sure it will be worth a few yuks. I'd love to see it. But what purpose would it serve with respect to responding to the MMMers? Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 04:49 am by HankT |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Hawkflyer wrote: HankT wrote: And based on your reading, those would be?? Try being specific, Hawk. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Here is the first 10:30 minutes, to include the meeting cancellation and discussion with a woman "not affiliated with MMM". Notice that when I panned the camera at the 3:10 mark I caught the same lady removing her MMM identification name tag!! I'm going to bed. The rest of the video will be available tomorrow. http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZAsyrBTvN2g |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
Naked, great job!! OOPS! At 2:14 she publically states that they're rescheduling it at a private place. That will remove the tax exempt status from the MMM movement en-masse! We need the legal beagles to get this... |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
BobCav wrote:Naked, great job!! +1 Now that is a "Discussion/debate" I can support. Regards |
|||||||||
|
longwatch Founder's Club Member
|
Good video Naked. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
HankT wrote:Hawkflyer wrote:HankT wrote: Since you seem unable to discern these from your own writing. 1) The right to freely attend an open public meeting WITHOUT APOLOGY. 2) The right to film AN OPEN PUBLIC meeting 3) The right to film an open public meeting WITHOUT FIRST SIGING A WAIVER 4) The right to attend ANY public meeting held in a PUBLIC FACILITY Keep going Hank, we are finally getting to the bottom of what you are willing to COMPROMISE to talk to these people. I also notice in LEO229's thread you pushed Tomahawk very hard to find out if he went to the meeting. You even asked him why he did not attend. Funny since you would not answer the second part of that same questions when it was put to you. I think Tess has the right idea. Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 05:07 am by Hawkflyer |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
Wow, that lady just doesn' t have a clue. I would have said, Ma'am, at the last meeting, they put out info that was blatantly and purposefully wrong and misquoted the law to the extent that if anyone followed the advice presented, they would now be a felon. You should be thanking me. Any ACCURATE information you want regarding the laws of where you can and cannot legally carry a gun is available online for the whole public. She proceeded from the false assumption that the officer was there as some sort of legal expert. But that's the mentality of socialists who give all power and glory to the government. Turn the argument around on her and give it right back. The officer was most likely called out of fear and is NOT an authority on either the law or weapons. You use your car every single day, yet you aren't a professional driver. I would submit that I practice at the range more than that officer does and am more qualified on my weapon than he is on his and regarding gun laws, I would bet that I know more of them than he does. What a lemming. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
41 minutes of audio (the whole event, from the time I entered the room until I left) below. http://media.putfile.com/MMMAUDIO |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: Here is the first 10:30 minutes, to include the meeting cancellation and discussion with a woman "not affiliated with MMM". Notice that when I panned the camera at the 3:10 mark I caught the same lady removing her MMM identification name tag!! Good quality video, NS. And the audio was good too. The MMMers are obviously out of line for placing their restrictions on the taping. It would have been a simple matter of signing the release to get the viceo. Then you've got the video and you can determine whether their release restrictions would pass legal muster. My guess is that it would not. Then you could use the video in any way you wished. That would have been the smart thing to do. You would have lost nothing and everyone would have been able to attend the meeting. If the waiver were found to be no good and unenforceable, then you would have had the video everyone here wants. The truth serum, as it were. The video is painful to view. The MMMers set it up so you and OCDC/VCDL are the bad guys. The MMMers were in the wrong for doing what they did but your (and the group's) reaction and stubborness played right into their hands. C'est la vie. The woman who spoke to you after the meeting was highly intelligent, focused, calm, surgical and she made mincemeat of you. You were OWNED by her. Better luck next time. Train wreck. A train wreck. Again. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Hawkflyer wrote: HankT wrote: 1) I suggested a group apology to try to get everything back to square one and to shoe a group good faith effort. I did not say that the group had not right to attend any meeting they desired to attend. You are fabricating your point and it is quite evident that you are doing so. 2) I said nothing about the public's right to a public meeting. You're making that up. I certainly agree that the 3M meeting should be public. The 3Mers are wrong for having tried to make the meeting not public and that includes any future meetings. Sorry, you lose again, Hawk. 3) I agree that NS had the right to film the 3M meeting tonite without a waiver. Again, you lose, Hawk. I stated that NS would have been smart to sign the waiver, get his video, then determine, without a time constraint, whether the waiver had any true legal force. If it did not, it would be a simple matter to ignore its provisions. Again, let me repeat it for you, Hawk: I do not believe the 3Mers had a right to impose their waiver signing requirement tonite. 4) I don't know what you're saying here. But I believe that anyone who is the public should be able to go to any public meeting. No compromise there. Just bad reading skillz on your part again. Just like your account of my having "pushed Tomahawk very hard to find out if he went to the meeting." I simply asked him about it and he replied. I did not "push hard." That's a fabrication on your part, about the only rhetorical tool you're using lately. And it wasn't Tomahawk. Might want to get some new specs, Hawk. You're making lots of reading comprehension errors lately. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: 41 minutes of audio (the whole event, from the time I entered the room until I left) below. I'm listening to the audio now. Pretty good audio, NS. I'm hearing the part about the contended basis for waiver being explained. Due to Ricker's rights/concerns.... Strikes me that a way to combat/counter the MMMers' gambit is to say " Well, I think we have a right film EVERYTHING but if you're going to refuse to let us film ANYTHING, how about if I film everything EXCEPT BOB Ricker's part? They would have had no plausible response to that. The way it was handled, you didn't get ANY video of ANY part of the formal meeting. So, that's a negative outcome, I'd say. Depends on what the objectives for the group attending were. I think the MMMers are gonna paint this one so that the group looks bad. And I'm pretty sure they will spell OCDC and VCDL correctly when they do it, including any news media coverage. Oh lord. Were there any news media there? I can see the headline now... Train wreck. P.S. I notice that the MMMer said that "we have been threatened by them so many times..." That might be defamatory and actionable, no? P.S.2. I've heard the audio tape. The woman NS was speaking to on the video and which continued on the audio clip is pretty sharp. I hope she is not a reporter. And if she is not a reporter, I hope she doesn't talk to one. The "maybe he [Ricker] will speak about child pornography if I paid him" line was truly, um, ill-considered. My gosh, NS. That was really bad. Train wreck. Interesting, but a train wreck nontheless. Who is this guy Solo who was filming the woman/nakedshoplifter exchange? That could be some very damaging video if it gets out. The woman pretty much OWN3d naked. Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 06:35 am by HankT |
|||||||||
|
longwatch Founder's Club Member
|
Naked. After listening to the audio I think the right move was not to sign anything. I believe that they were angling to hit you with lawsuits if you used it for anything. I like your points in the discussion as well. Especially the one about if Ricker was such a believer in the cause he speak for nothing. |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
"Let the man of learning, the man of lettered leisure, beware of that queer and cheap temptation to pose to himself and to others as a cynic, as the man who has outgrown emotions and beliefs, the man to whom good and evil are as one. The poorest way to face life is to face it with a sneer. There are many men who feel a kind of twister pride in cynicism; there are many who confine themselves to criticism of the way others do what they themselves dare not even attempt. There is no more unhealthy being, no man less worthy of respect, than he who either really holds, or feigns to hold, an attitude of sneering disbelief toward all that is great and lofty, whether in achievement or in that noble effort which, even if it fails, comes to second achievement. A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life's realities - all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. They mark the men unfit to bear their part painfully in the stern strife of living, who seek, in the affection of contempt for the achievements of others, to hide from others and from themselves in their own weakness. The role is easy; there is none easier, save only the role of the man who sneers alike at both criticism and performance. Theodore Roosevelt |
|||||||||
|
Pa. Patriot State Researcher
|
BobCav wrote:
Recently, I aquired a nearly complete "Works of Theodore Roosevelt". Can't wait to get time to start reading them! |
|||||||||
|
Scheetz Regular Member
|
Did the woman claim NS has a small penis in the beginning?? I also love the guy that calls him a f****** idiot. |
|||||||||
|
Pa. Patriot State Researcher
|
Wow, that video is so telling in so many ways. It's hard to find a place to start! Even after everyone elses comments so far. However, you know it's all YOUR fault the meeting didn't take place! How DARE you take video of a PUBLIC meeting without signing some waiver that you won't use it in a way THEY don't agree with. ROFL And the pushy one insisting she hasn't heard of this organization (MMM) before - HA! What a moronic lie. My 12 yr old lies better than that! Now it is obvious, without a shadow of a doubt, how stupid a MMM bimbo need be to subscribe to such an organizations beliefs. I hope they get what's coming re: the private meeting. Another indication they aren't real bright eh? Wish I was there. ETA: I love the way she repeats (ad nauseum) that she "doesn't understand". And finally walks away stating she's more confused than ever now. You think? Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 07:42 am by Pa. Patriot |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
All three videos uploaded: #1 http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZAsyrBTvN2g #2 http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lc8uXTfpdHM #3 http://youtube.com/watch?v=-CnDvnPFzL0 |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
nakedshoplifter wrote:All three videos uploaded: good job for keeping your composure and not blowing up in that dumb lady's face who was obviously a plant from the mmm. ...if "she" wanted information so badly, why'd she spend a half hour and more talking to YOU instead of asking the actual presenters and organizers questions. *sigh* I just hope Mr. Y can get us tickets to their private showing... > ) From the audio clip... what were the other people filming/recording going to do with their recordings if they signed the disclaimer? ...unless they had no intention of following it in the first place. (ala hankt's monday morning qb suggestion) Eff that, you were right in refusing to sign regardless of mmm's response. No deceptions, no lies. You made your choice, and they made their choice in cancelling the meeting. We'll see if they ever have public meetings again, knowing now that *gasp* they may not being preaching to the choir every sermon... Sucks when you actually have to back up your b.s. instead of just spoonfeeding it to the nearest sheep who's hungry. Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 07:45 am by unrequited |
|||||||||
|
casullshooter Regular Member
|
I was the one wearing the USMC shoulder rig under a Blazer . The only people that noticed were fellow gun owners as I am sure that I would have been pointed out if they noticed . I also kept papers to my chest to cover the strap as much as possible . After the meeting(short version) one of their members kept creeping closer to me(in the lobby) until my jacket parted slightly and she saw the heel of my pistol . She then frantically told the librarian to get the police back "that man has a gun!" I did not hear the response but she walked away in a serious Huff . |
|||||||||
|
OC-Glock19 Founder's Club Member 
|
HankT wrote: I'm not sure I understand your points, Pa. Patriot. I made some fair comments and whether "everyone" disagrees is really not, um, pertinent. Your posts have become tiresome. Now is the time on Sprockets when we dance. |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
OC-Glock19 wrote: HankT wrote:I'm not sure I understand your points, Pa. Patriot. I made some fair comments and whether "everyone" disagrees is really not, um, pertinent. Love my monkey....TOUCH my monkey!!  |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
BobCav wrote:Naked, great job!! On the subject of the MMM and tax standing, They seem to have problems in this area already. The Million Mom March MMM also has some arrangement from this page for 5% of Amazon.com purchases, so you might want to be careful what you buy from them. Regards Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 02:16 pm by Hawkflyer |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
Yep, I've seen some of that already, Hawk, thanks. They're in trouble for endorsing politicians. Hey, I just found this on Google CHAT while searching. It's a thread about "fun things to do while OC'ing. Attending a MMM meeting is apparently it! They quote Nakedshoplifter's thread and writeup after the first MMM meeting that some folks attended: http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.guns/browse_thread/thread/ca820fd81d7df89f/fb78bce7f6325330 |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
Well, here's the next public MMM meetup: http://www.celebratefairfax.org/index.asp?bid=850 |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Hawkflyer wrote: BobCav wrote: I was going to comment on the MMMer gal saying the meeting being rescheduled to a private residence. This was very wrong for the MMM to suggest this. That's pretty obvious. But I rather doubt it is illegal or in contravention to 501(c) regs to say they are going to do it. Actually holding meetings in private and not in public would be what would get them in a wringer. So, I've got to assume that there's a very good chance the MMMers will assess the situation and rely on legal advice from either an informed member or a lawyer. Then logic would dictate that the MMMers would realize that holding only private meetings would be a stupid strategy. I'm not sure I follow Hawk's reference that MMM "seem to have problems" with tax stuff. Maybe he'll explain it. Looks like old stuff. If it is a problem for them, then someone should come up with an articulable charge or set of allegations against the MMM for whatever they did wrong. And then publicize the bad things that MMM did in 2001 or whenever. It could be a good strategy to bring the info to light again. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Mr. Y wrote: Well, here's the next public MMM meetup: Interesting. Will they have a booth there? From the Celebrate Fairfax Festival site: Celebrate Fairfax!, Northern Virginia’s largest community-wide celebration, arrives June 8-10, 2007 to the Fairfax County Government Center. Presented by Celebrate Fairfax, Inc, the annual festival hosts tens of thousands of visitors during the three-day run. The 25-acre site is magically filled with fascinating sights and sounds as more than 400 exhibitors, vendors, crafters and interactive activities are included in the annual celebration. Celebrate Fairfax! showcases live concerts on six stages, an interactive SciTech Center and ExxonMobil Children's Avenue, great festival foods, and the award winning County Expo program. Nightly fireworks, presented by SAIC, are a highlight of the festival, and one of many great family programs. http://www.celebratefairfax.org/index.asp?sid=1 |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
Perhaps the MMM can get legal advice from the same lawyers that helped them put this page together on Virginia firearms laws. (bring your duct tape) The misinformation on that page is not the result of innocent ignorance. They had a lawyer help them put it together. It is intentional propaganda. I particularly like the one concerning CHPs and that there is no training requirement. As for violations of the open meeting requirements, technically they may have already violated the law when they advertised an open meeting, and then announced that the meeting was cancelled, if they subsequently went someplace and met even in a small group to discuss the evenings planned events. The tape clearly shows that the reason for shutting down the meeting was because of the audience present. You might be able to shut down a public meeting for a lot of reasons, but not liking who is in the audience is not one of them. The whole purpose of an open meeting is so ANYONE can see what is going on, weather you agree with them or not. Regards |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Hawkflyer wrote: Perhaps the MMM can get legal advice from the same lawyers that helped them put this page together on Virginia firearms laws. (bring your duct tape) You may very well be right about your assertion above that MMMers "technically" "violated the law" already by cancelling the meeting for the stated reason they did. I don't know. Do you have a citation of the law in this area, Hawk? Is there any recourse or cause of action? I wonder, too, what is the penalty for cancelling one meeting--let's say for an unacceptable reason, as was clearly the case last night? What if they turn around and say, "Oops, we looked at the regs and we will start all over with public meetings--beginning with our next one. No harm, no foul? Do you have any cites, Hawk? As a general comment, it seems to me that the MMMers are in full battle mentality with regard to gun/rights advocates and VCDL. Why? What got them so motivated to be reactive and retaliatory. Was it any justified reason? Right after the first MMM meeting that OCDC/VCDL group went to, we were kicking around the situation. One guy seem to be defending the MMMers quite a bit. He said: If you look at all this from their point of view, the VCDL presence at their meeting was excessive and it was frightening. From what I have read, if the armed citizens did not outnumber them, it was close. So how would they see such a presence of armed strangers that virtually took over their meeting, and certainly had an impact on the evenings agenda? That was you who said it, Hawk. Apparently you changed your mind a bit, eh? |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
The part about not wanting our video to be altered doesn't hold water. All they would have to do is make their own tape at the same time. In fact, if they thought we might alter a video, it would be sound strategy on their part to let us do it, then air their own unaltered video to discredit us. Something deeper going on here. What's Bob Ricker up to? Was he planning to say something that would get his contract cancelled with the parent organization? What are the MMM's up to by this? Hmmmm. Lets keep making hay guys. Anybody spreading the word to other sites? |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Tis I, BOHDI, Muuuuaaaahhhaaaaa hhaaaa. Yes, bohdi, little, innocent me. Who is not a member of VCDL, ha ha! But I AM a concerned Centreville resident who decided to attend this public meeting, and listen intently to what they hopefully had to say. Of course, I also wanted to share with my family, and anyone else that was interested their message. Additionally, I wanted to meet some of the fine cast of characters I've written/exchanged ideas with here. Sadly, instead of continuing the meeting without their paid public speakers, the closed the entire thing down, which in my opinion was extremely childish and unproductive but their choice. Heck, I even brought cookies which I offered to share with all, but more on that later....... I also just happen to visit this message board, and happen to believe that as an intelligent being, it is important for me to gather as much information as possible, about a subject or issue that I am interested in, to determine if things being presented or said are truthful and factual. I gather information from multiple sources in order to accomplish this. Just because I visit this board to gather information and exchange ideas should not automatically make me "with" anyone, though I will provide more on the "with" reference in a minute. I chose to visit this message board because I am in fact the proud owner of a Glock model 22 .40 cal handgun for personal protection. Why am I proud? Because I am actually able to legally exercise my right to own such a piece of precision machinery. Since I own this piece of precision machinery, and I am an intelligent being, it is in my best interest to find out what all the rules, regulations, laws, and public opinion about it are, to include unpopular opinion, and consequences of using this piece of precision machinery, and carrying it around. Gee, I did the same thing when learning about another piece of precision machinery a number of years back, it's called a vehicle, so what I'm talking about now seems like a logical deduction to me. On to the fun stuff Sorry I didn't catch the group at Starbucks, family issues prevented me from getting there on time and prevented me from staying for Taco I got to the library before Naked & others showed up. As I walked into the room I notice the Fairfax County officer and a bunch of other people sitting around, there were at least 18 people there at the time, not everyone was wearing their pink shirts - which I thought identified them as 3M supporters but I could be wrong about that. As I set my tripod bag down and camera case, the woman that NS ended up having a lengthy conversation with approached me and asked, "What’s in that bag, a gun?". Sort of shocked me, but then again, I know what camera gear looks like, she probably didn't. I will also submit at this point that the tripod bag could easily carry five or six shotguns after some thought on the manner, or any number of handguns if that was the intent, which it wasn't. My camera case probably could hold any number of handguns as well, so again, maybe the woman's question wasn't entirely invalid, but it was humorous to me. So I said "No, it's a tripod bag, what makes you think I would have guns in there?" She said, "Oh I don't know." and left it at that. At that point I knew it was going to be an interesting evening. Not long after that the head lady who appears in NS video saying the meeting is cancelled approached me and asked me who I was and who I was with. That caught me off guard because it was at that moment that I realized as other had pointed out they apparently do read this message board ***one of the reasons I'm going into great detail here is because of that*** and might have mistaken me for someone associated with VCDL, which as I have stated previously, I am not as I have not paid for a membership with them, and I may not in order to maintain some neutrality, but will continue to gather information from them as they are a great resource. I politely told her that I was a concerned citizen of Centreville, who heard about the meeting from the Centreview newspaper (which I did as well as here and VCDL). She then asked me why I needed to video tape the meeting. I told her it was an opportunity for me to get some additional experience video taping, and that my wife was at home and could not attend, so I would like to be able to share with her what was going on. She said "Uh huh, I think we know who you really are and why your here, that's fine." and walked away. At that point I said nothing and continued to set up my camera. Once I had the tripod up, I moved to a corner so I would be out of the way, after all I was a guest and wanted to take up as little space as possible, and moved to the far rear right corner of the room, which just happened to be next to their cookies and grapes. So I decided to put out cookies that I had brought to share with everyone in the spirit of fellowship, and put them next to their setup. I was then asked shortly after by the head lady to move my cookies away from theirs as she felt it was inappropriate and wrong for me to bring them to the meeting. Someone else made another comment about it being disgusting but I don't know who it was. Then she requested that I relocate my camera away from my present location to the middle more and I complied. Then I grabbed my cookies and decide to put them away. I didn't see a need to make things anymore difficult or inflammatory than they seemed to be getting by me just being there and videotaping things. I didn't look at the time, so I cannot be certain as to when NS showed up with his camera, and I don't remember exactly when I turned my camera on was, but I am certain it was before 7 PM based on the shots I have when I first turned on the camera. I know it automatically shut off, but I turned it back on again, and didn't note the time then either. I don't think they had started on drafting their waiver at that point, but I know that they were drafting it after NS was in the room, that is on tape. I don't blame NS at all for not signing the waiver; he walked into what was starting to become a hostile environment. The organizers were clearly annoyed that I was there, and were more so when NS showed up with his camera. I wouldn't have signed it either if I was NS, but I wasn't there representing anyone but myself, so I had no problem. I also read what they had written and was provided a copy of the waiver I signed after the meeting, so I had no issues, I noticed the flaws in their hastily written document , but more on that in a minute. I provided a copy to Jim Synder last night. The other gentlemen that was video taping was Jim Solo - handwriting on the waiver is shaky so it could be Jim Solb - I don't have it with me at the moment so I'll have to verify that later. I don't know if NS caught any of the following on his tape, it didn't appear that he did from the three video segments posted, and I couldn't load the audio from the other posting. I will say that it is interesting to um, READ the text of the Audio that I captured which WAS NOT covered by the waiver which I did willingly sign. The wavier, incidentally, pertained to photographs, and video of the meeting. Since the meeting never actually started and was cancelled I believe it is within my right to post all the video I captured, but I'll wait to be advised on that as I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. Although, the waiver does say I can use it for my own personal and private use, so I have no problems inviting people to my house, by invitation only while I put this to private use and ask you all to critique, privately of course, my handiwork or lack there of. Alternatively, I could I suppose choose an alternate method and one that is more geographically friendly, and put it up on my own private website, and ask for people to help me troubleshoot problems I am having on my website related to experimenting with websites....just a few wacky ideas. Actually, I imagine this is quite long so I'll put it in another reply. Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 05:57 pm by bohdi |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Text of the first four minutes of my audio tape Unknown woman 1 – Could you sign this please? NakedShoplifter – I’m not going to sign. Unknown woman 1 – Why not? Do you intend to use this for something other than your personal use? NS – What that is saying is that you’re uh not going to make it available to anyone else. Unknown woman 1 to NS– Why else would you, you don’t want to say that you will not make this available for other people to see, other than your private use? I will ask this gentlemen to sign this. She walks to me at this point and hands me the document. I read it carefully. Bohdi – Does he have to sign this? (Pointing at the guy in blue shirt and black pants video taping me) – lady asking name is Terry I think Unknown woman 1 – Yes I point the waiver at the gentlemen. Unknown woman 1 – Fine, Hey Jim, excuse me, will you sign this? Jim Solo or Solb?– Sure Unknown Woman 1- Please feel free to come in ma’am Woman in Pink – I was going to sign in but there was no pen – Someone had a discussion with this woman later, she was not affiliated with MMM Unknown woman 1 – Oh I’m sorry We took the pen from there but there should be a pen over there. Jim Snyder hands pen to woman in pink – You are ???? couldn’t hear, my camera was too far away Woman in Pink – Oh, oh ok.Thanks Jim Snyder – And they have a bunch more over here Woman in pink – Oh they have a bunch there. Oh I didn’t see those. Jim Snyder – That means I’ll take mine back Woman in pink - You bet, I didn’t I I I didn’t see I looked here and I said I don’t have a pen, well thank you Unknown woman 1 to NS – I’ll ask you again to please sign that Bohdi – I’ll I’ll be more than happy to sign that Unknown woman 1 – Ok Bohdi – Can I get a copy of this? Unknown woman 1 – A copy of what? Bohdi – This document. Unknown woman 1 – This? Sure. I’ll have to ask the library to make a copy. Bohdi – That would be fantastic. Unknown gentlemen in Pink shirt in front of CG1 – I’ll donate the $0.15 if they don’t Unknown woman 1 – Pardon me? Unknown GinPink – I’ll donate the $0.15 if they give you a hard time about it Unknown woman 1 – What’s the point of it? Unknown GinPink – Ok. Bohdi to unknown woman 1 – Would you like my phone number as well? Unknown woman 1 – Sure. Bohdi – Is there any additional information you would like from me? Unknown woman 1 – No. She walks away. Goes to talk to guy in blue polo shirt and white/tan pants who wrote the document to discuss things. The gentlemen says something about being paid to speak, believe this is Bob Ricker. Unknown guy in blue polo (Bob Ricker) – I I speak undistinguisable I’m a paid spokesperson. Undistinguisable they can use that undistinguisable Unknown Woman 1 – Okaaaay, goes back to NS - she is extremely happy at this point with Bob's response, but I was too far away to pick it up. Unknown Woman 1 to NS – He’s a public speaker, he’s paid to speak. You cannot use this for something that he will be paid for. So you can either turn the camera off or sign the release. NS – Well, this is uh, this is a public event in a library. Unknown woman 1 – And I am perfectly willing to let you use that camera as long as you sign the release saying you will not (undistinguisable sounds like purchase will, maybe breach his will) not to be filmed and used for something for which he was paid. NS – Well is this um, is this a legal requirement for me to do this? Unknown woman 1 – Yes. NS – Is that what your saying? Unknown woman 1 – Yes I’m saying either turn the camera off or, NS – I’m not asking what your opinion is, I’m asking you if there is a legal requirement Unknown woman 1 – No I’m telling you, this man is an attorney, I think he knows the law. Stopped transcribing at 4 minutes. I may do more depending on what others advise. The asian woman from the Brady Center in pink who was video taping as well was not asked to sign the waiver, and I am pretty sure she stopped taping at various points, where I let my camera run non-stop except for one instance where it shut off automatically and turned it back on. Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 06:52 pm by bohdi |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Mailed to Martina at NOVA MMM Chapter Hello, I am the guy with the camera that signed your waiver request. I am disappointed that your organization decided to not continue its meeting; I would have liked to have heard what information you had to present. While I understand your speaker’s reluctance to present his paid for information, I do not understand why the rest of you could not have spoken and presented information in the public form as you advertised. By the way, what did it cost to have the gentlemen and the police officer present for the meeting? Was the police officer there for protection against disruption or was he there to present information based on events in Fairfax County, and Centreville specifically? I personally was not there to "disrupt", but to listen and learn about the gun violence issue. I personally think this organization missed a great opportunity to spread its message by not going through with the meeting as planned. Sincerely, me, bohdi - edited for my own stupidity I also sent a mail to MMM HQ asking what Bob Ricker was paid to attend last nights meeting. Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 02:32 am by bohdi |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Lastly, I apologize for not being able to spend more fellowship time with those of you there, it would have been fun. I did get to meet vrwmiller & Company, Callushooter, Naked, Tess, Jim Synder, and a few others that I didn't get to catch names etc. Hope you enjoyed the cookies Additional answers some are seeking: Q: Who was that asian lady filming? A: She was from the Brady Center, I asked her while NS was being grilled by the lady who removed her name tag prior to approaching him after the meeting was cancelled. She was the one who asked me if I had guns in my tripod bag. Q: What was the turn out A: 18+, most of them not from VCDL or OCDO |
|||||||||
|
vrwmiller Regular Member
|
bohdi, thanks for the information above. I, too, was disappointed that they cancelled the meeting. It was a pleasure to meet you. I apologize to the rest of the crowd for not staying longer for association afterwards, but I had to get the son home to finish his homework. I suppose Bob Ricker had a right to not appear on a video without having a waiver/release signed. On the other hand, this was a public meeting in a public facility. Not to mention, it's Bob Ricker, who should have no fear of appearing on film as he has done so many times before. What was his fear of speaking on camera? Like several of us eluded to, I was there to get information. I was not there are a representative of VCDL, OCDO, or any other group. In fact, my purpose in going was to subject my son to a lesson in civics (or what turned out to be uncivility), plus he enjoys coming along with me. We usually have at length discussions following any such events and talk to each other about the events. I see no reason why they couldn't have proceded with the remainder of the agenda without Bob Ricker speaking. Apparently, they had other material they intended to cover. It seemed to me that Bob Ricker was the only person that was against the filming of himself. By indicating he would not speak if the waivers remained unsigned. Does anyone else think that he may have been manipulating these women? |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
vrwmiller wrote: bohdi, thanks for the information above. I, too, was disappointed that they cancelled the meeting. It was a pleasure to meet you. I apologize to the rest of the crowd for not staying longer for association afterwards, but I had to get the son home to finish his homework. I also captured a quote (notebook only, not electronic) from the man running the computer projection system. He said (don't have my notes with me so this may not be verbatim) "It's a public place but it's a private meeting", or maybe "...it's MY meeting." That's when I wrote in my notes "the newspaper said the public was invited." That man told another in the room he is the spouse of one of the two - either the outgoing or the incoming MMM president. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
HankT wrote:Hawkflyer wrote:Perhaps the MMM can get legal advice from the same lawyers that helped them put this page together on Virginia firearms laws. (bring your duct tape) Contextomy, HankT's most favored logic fallacy. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Bohdi, it was nice to meet you last night. Until I asked who you were after the meeting was cancelled I had no idea who you were or why you were filming. All I knew was I had a MMM camera on me (Jim Solo / Asian woman) and you there filming me. Since you had pro gear like the Asian lady, and were willing to sign the waiver I had you tagged as one of the MMM supporters they called in for assistance! I apologize for not being friendly and introducing myself earlier, I thought you were there to document my activities for Ricker or the MMM group. I was not willing to sign any document they provided for many reasons. I'll detail two of them here: 1: I am not a lawyer. I don't sign documents of this nature w/o a lawyer present. 2: The release was handwritten, and there was a lot of space between the agreement language and where signatories would sign. This would allow the MMM group to add language to the agreement at a later time and date. Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 07:31 pm by nakedshoplifter |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
No problem brother, I don't knock you at all for not signing, and am glad you didn't to be honest. I did have reservations about it, but I have a copy of what I signed incase whoever wrote it decided to try what you said. I didn't think you were unfriendly toward me, no harm done. Wish I would have been able to meet you all prior to the meeting, but I was delayed getting out of my house, eeeerrrrrgh. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: I was not willing to sign any document they provided for many reasons. I'll detail two of them here: Well, that's a plausible reason. But, of course, that means that you were assured of not getting to film any of the scheduled meeting. Just the way it worked out. The MMMers were being retaliatory for the first meeting and figured out a way to exert their insistence to control the second meeting. The MMMers outmaneuvered you at the first meeting too, although not with the waiver gambit. I don't recall what it was. I think they just asked you not to tape and you agreed, saying you were going to "insist" on taping the second one. They probably anticipated that you either wouldn't sign or that you would and that they would retain some measure of control over the video. nakedshoplifter wrote: 2: The release was handwritten, and there was a lot of space between the agreement language and where signatories would sign. This would allow the MMM group to add language to the agreement at a later time and date. You could have asked them to give you a copy of the signed agreement. It was in a library, so there should be plenty of copiers around. If they would not have agreed to giving you a copy, that would have been a different story. I see the points of bohdi, longwatch and a couple others who say you did the right thing by not signing. But i would suggest it would have been much better if you had. You'd have the video, a copy of the waiver and the time to see if the waiver was even legal. If it would be legal somehow, you'd be no worse off than now (actually better since you could cite the contents and show it privately). If the provisions were found to be illegal or not sustainable, then you could have simply posted the video of the meeting. You could have done with it what you (legally) wanted to. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
Next time Hank, you should come to help us poor Virginians figure this all out. Naked you did just fine. You too Bohdi. The Monday morning quarterback comments don't mean a thing if the guy was not even in the stadium. Regards |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Hawkflyer wrote: Next time Hank, you should come to help us poor Virginians figure this all out. That's odd. Hawk, you were not at the first meeting and you said this: If you look at all this from their point of view, the VCDL presence at their meeting was excessive and it was frightening. From what I have read, if the armed citizens did not outnumber them, it was close. So how would they see such a presence of armed strangers that virtually took over their meeting, and certainly had an impact on the evenings agenda? Different logic? Different ethics? Different Monday morning? |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
HankT wrote: Hawkflyer wrote:Next time Hank, you should come to help us poor Virginians figure this all out. You know, you two sound like an old married couple..... just saying..... |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
 |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
HankT wrote:Hawkflyer wrote:Next time Hank, you should come to help us poor Virginians figure this all out. Same Contextomy, age related repeating I suppose. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
BobCav wrote: Hank is on the LEFT |
|||||||||
|
1st freedom Regular Member
|
HankT wrote: nakedshoplifter wrote:Here is the first 10:30 minutes, to include the meeting cancellation and discussion with a woman "not affiliated with MMM". Notice that when I panned the camera at the 3:10 mark I caught the same lady removing her MMM identification name tag!! The mom's o million wanted to have a meeting to spew there garbadge to the public and didn't want it filmed so as not to be put on the spot at a later date for squewd facts and missinformation. "We dont want them to film our meeting, so we wont have a meeting" What a train wreck, yup,,, they got us good Hank |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
 |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
I don't support the position that this was a train wreck, unless your a member of the MMM. There was a guy with vrwmiller who was actually very well spoken and talked to a woman there about a few things and this woman ended up siding with his line of thinking - not vrwmiller but his friend. She actually was asking the MMM why they couldn't just continue, I think I have that on tape, NS should as well. 2A supporters gained a free thinker, +1 In the grand sheme of things, the MMM could have continued without their speaker, why they didn't think of it, I don't know. Had I thought of it at the time, I would have suggested it but it didn't occour to me until this morning, which does no good. Next time.... Last edited on Tue Jun 5th, 2007 09:03 pm by bohdi |
|||||||||
|
vrwmiller Regular Member
|
Hawkflyer wrote: Next time Hank, you should come to help us poor Virginians figure this all out. +1 |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
unrequited wrote: Yea, Only a lot younger. Hank is still on the LEFT. |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
First Rosie, now this.....  |
|||||||||
|
vrwmiller Regular Member
|
bohdi wrote: ...There was a guy with vrwmiller who was actually very well spoken and talked to a woman there about a few things and this woman ended up siding with his line of thinking - not vrwmiller but his friend. She actually was asking the MMM why they couldn't just continue, I think I have that on tape, NS should as well. 2A supporters gained a free thinker, +1 Both, bohdi and NS, I think have him on tape (either audio or video) speaking. After reviewing the tapes/audio, I think bohdi has the better cut, as my friend was nearer to bohdi. He is very well spoken and the woman he was speaking with did end up agreeing. This admission is heard in one of bohdi's tapes. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
bohdi wrote: In the grand sheme of things, the MMM could have continued without their speaker, why they didn't think of it, I don't know. Had I thought of it at the time, I would have suggested it but it didn't occour to me until this morning, which does no good. Next time.... I agree completely. Or Naked could have suggested taping only the non-Ricker proceedings. There's a few ways it could have turned out better. But when the pressure is on, it's difficult to think real clearly. Negotiators can do it. People who have that knack or training. They always look for alternatives, even under constraints. There are a bunch of lessons in Train Wreck I and Train Wreck II. I wonder what will happen next. Has there been any news media coverage or press releases concerning last night's events yet? |
|||||||||
|
Horrid Mischief Regular Member 
|
Thanks bohdi! Let me introduce myself to everyone as this is my first post...I'm vrmiller's friend; I've been a lurker on this board for a few months and I joined the VCDL after I heard about the Manassas thing at Tony's pizza. Both vrmiller and myself attended the City Council meetings and the Bloomburg Gun Giveaway, so we have met a few of you on this list. I met bohdi outside the library when he came up to offer us some cookies. I introduced myself as "a lurker". ;-) Nekkid-Shop-lifter (sp) got me on most of his third video. I think that woman I was speaking to really was getting the point I was trying to make; the issue was really about free speech. The MMM have the right to say whatever they want; even if it is untrue or misleading. But others also have the right to make recordings of what they say, and attempting to place limits on recording the meetig calls into question the validity of the MMM position. The "I'll tkae my ball and go home" tactic isn't going to advance their agenda. Put me down for the next meeting. (Oh, and I can get an even BIGGER pro-camera setup for that one as well.) bohdi wrote: I don't support the position that this was a train wreck, unless your a member of the MMM. There was a guy with vrwmiller who was actually very well spoken and talked to a woman there about a few things and this woman ended up siding with his line of thinking - not vrwmiller but his friend. She actually was asking the MMM why they couldn't just continue, I think I have that on tape, NS should as well. 2A supporters gained a free thinker, +1 |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Horrid Mischief wrote: Thanks bohdi! Let me introduce myself to everyone as this is my first post... If you were the guy with the knapsack standing against the table by the wall, you did pretty well. As I recall, you made some good points and I believe you were talking to the woman who was OWNING NS. You kind of rescued him, I thought as I watched it last night. Good job. |
|||||||||
|
Horrid Mischief Regular Member
|
Yeah, that was me. I was on my way home from work and on a motorcycle. Yay HOV! (Thus the back-pack.) I had forgotten about the meeting until vrmiller called me. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Horrid Mischief wrote: Yeah, that was me. I was on my way home from work and on a motorcycle. Yay HOV! (Thus the back-pack.) I had forgotten about the meeting until vrmiller called me. "What's a camera got to do with that!" Great line.... |
|||||||||
|
longwatch Founder's Club Member
|
Made it onto THR. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=280922 No mention of train wrecks. |
|||||||||
|
Forty-five Regular Member
|
I just watched/listened to it. Way to go Naked! I wouldn't have signed either, and I won't negotiate with people who want to outlaw open carry, concealed carry, restaurant carry, car carry, yard carry, house carry--you name it. |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Just watched the whole thing. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. And for someone who "never heard of" the Million Mom March, she sure knew enough about the differences between her viewpoint and the NRA's. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Did you see her peel off her MMM name tag at the 3:10 mark? They weren't handing out MMM nametags to guests, only the MMM's had them! |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Horrid Mischief wrote: Yeah, that was me. I was on my way home from work and on a motorcycle. Yay HOV! (Thus the back-pack.) I had forgotten about the meeting until vrmiller called me. You were GREAT! Even if you do have a bike that makes you carry a backpack |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: Did you see her peel off her MMM name tag at the 3:10 mark? They weren't handing out MMM nametags to guests, only the MMM's had them! Yes. And near the end of part 1, within the last 30 seconds or so, she betrays her knowledge of what the organization asked you to do. |
|||||||||
|
Pa. Patriot State Researcher
|
Tess wrote: Just watched the whole thing. That and she took off her name tag before speaking with NS. I'd say she was a blatent liar and quite irritating. I would have cut her off after the 10th or 12th redundant question and asked her which part of my first 10 answers she was unable to understand because it won't get any clearer if you continue to ask the same questions. |
|||||||||
|
roscoe13 Regular Member
|
And, if she was so intent on getting information at the meeting, why did she harrass NSL for 30 minutes instead of talking privately to the woman who announced the meeting cancelation, she volunteered to talk in person to anyone who was interested.... Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 01:07 am by roscoe13 |
|||||||||
|
Mr. Y Regular Member
|
+1 Tess. Mrs. Y and I just listened to the Youtube videos. NS, you have the patience of Job. You're correct that she was, in fact, a plant. If you pay close attention to her language throughout, you'll note that she tips off from time to time that she just may be... shall we say... affiliated? Yes, we shall. NS actually set a good example of how to be assertive of your rights, and polite. The plant was using what is a common arguement/debate tactic - the filibuster. No matter how many times you answered her, it was her "job" to get you talking on tape with her playing the role of the "victim". You gave her nothing. She displayed for the entire world that she had sub standard parentage, if any and poor social and behavior skills as a result. I hope that Martina is adult enough to apologize to you and the rest of the group as it will go a long way toward mending fences and it's just common sense. We really have to wonder what exactly Bob Ricker is hiding or trying to hide??? |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Which one is Martina? |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Mr. Y wrote: We really have to wonder what exactly Bob Ricker is hiding or trying to hide??? Let us not fall in to that trap, folks. Mr. Ricker is paid to speak. Just as a motivational speaker is paid to speak. Or others are paid to speak. Their point, whether we like it or not, is if we distribute the video for free, they lose the draw that makes people pay to have them speak. We don't have to like it, but we also have to realize that's the one legitimate reason he can offer. I did capture, notebook only, "I'm paid to speak" Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 01:46 am by Tess |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
Tess wrote: Mr. Y wrote:We really have to wonder what exactly Bob Ricker is hiding or trying to hide??? Good point, Tess. It gets Bob Ricker off the hook. The question, "Why didn't they continue the PowerPoint and discussion without him?" continues the PR pressure against the rest of them. |
|||||||||
|
Pa. Patriot State Researcher
|
Mr. Y wrote: I hope that Martina is adult enough to apologize to you and the rest of the group as it will go a long way toward mending fences and it's just common sense. ... That's a good job for Hank. Sic 'em boy |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Citizen wrote: Good point, Tess. It gets Bob Ricker off the hook. Perhaps we should ask that on Saturday at Celebrate Fairfax! They'll be in area 2 (http://www.celebratefairfax.org/CelebrateFairfax/files/ccLibraryFiles/Filename/000000000508/Color%20Site%20Map.pdf) - the Cox Marketplace. I wonder if Cox would like to see that video?? (Oh, wait, I just re-read the third (?) post from The High Road - good point.) My family plans to attend Celebrate Fairfax! on Saturday. We'll be wandering the grounds, and plan to attend the concert at 3. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Horrid, you evil lurker Nice to meet you man. Onto some other news, it is with my great pleasure to provide to you the waiver. It has no legal bearing on my ability to video tape that meeting, and I think if you'll look closely, you'll see why I had no fear of VIDEOTAPING that meeting. I'll give one of the left over cookies to the first person who can point out why. NS, damn I wish I had read this closer, and was able to communicate to you why it wasn't a problem. I just noticed it myself about 3 minutes ago. Who wants my video ok edited to remove the names of the innocent Attached Image (viewed 595 times): Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 02:04 am by bohdi |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
We also should have asked them to provide us proof that Bob was actually paid to speak at that particular meeting by the MMM. After all, if they can't prove they did, their arguement would have been baseless. Another thought, too late. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
The word "representation" sticks out. A video is not a "representation". A courtroom sketch is more along those lines. |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
bohdi wrote: Horrid, you evil lurker Oh, I'd love to be a lawyer and play with that one. Does photographic representation include video? Could be argued; video has a photographic and an audio component. One could argue that prior consent is given by the fact you are permitted to tape it; after all, it doesn't way prior "written" consent. There is no POC information for you to use to get said consent. There is no mention of WHICH meeting it references. There is no date. Oooooohhhh - IANAL but it screams unenforceable to me. YouTube probably wants it. But you may want to edit the image to black out your address - for your privacy and that of your family. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Bohdi, I saved the image to my hard drive before you redacted your information. (If you plan to do so, and you're smart to heed Tess's advice). I plan to use that image when I make the final MMM video for posting on youtube with me bluescreened onto the video to provide comments. When I use your image, I will redact your name and information. I'll be leaving Jim Solo's on there as nothing personal is given away and he is a public figure. |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
Oooh. I also just noticed I'm famous. I'm the one thanking her for, if it was advertised as "open to the public" moving it to an undisclosed location, and she replies "It works beautifully, because we can keep people like you out." Is that discrimination? People like me? What? Fat white women? Mothers? Women of Italian descent? |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
Tess wrote: Oooh. I also just noticed I'm famous. I'm the one thanking her for, if it was advertised as "open to the public" moving it to an undisclosed location, and she replies "It works beautifully, because we can keep people like you out." Tax-exemption "void-er" comment? |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
Tess wrote: Oooh. I also just noticed I'm famous. I'm the one thanking her for, if it was advertised as "open to the public" moving it to an undisclosed location, and she replies "It works beautifully, because we can keep people like you out." I'd say it was discrimination as you weren't wearing a gun she MUST have meant one of those things you mentioned! What a vile, disgusting, rude and mannerless bunch of females. Certainly not Ladies by any stretch of the imagination. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Tess, These ladies are so unprofessional and ignorant of their legal responsibilities they could easily land the BB in hot water. Your point is very valid. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: Bohdi, NS - after falling on my head and recovering (thanks to Bob and Citizen) I've done so and feel free to use the newer image or the one you have, I have no issue with it at all. I had an idea about the footage I have, I had that second camera I whipped out with my lightning fast mall ninja reflexes (my kung fu is powerful donthca know) and wanted to do a picture in picture at a certain part. I also have to chop it up to youtube it which I wanted to avoid because the MMM is so afraid of editing, slicing, splicing, and dicing, but I am limited on youtube to 10 mb files..... I do have a website hosted on my pc I can post it to as a whole video, but I can also put it on youtube. I think that would cover the bases. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
bohdi wrote:Horrid, you evil lurker Well for one thing, video is NOT a photograph or a "photographic representation" to a court. Video is an electronic recording, not a chemical process. So any of you that took film based photos, might have a problem but you video guys are off the hook. Regards |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Hawkflyer wrote: bohdi wrote: Who wants a cookie Come on Hawk, you know you want one. And you are exactly right. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
I think you might expect the next waiver to be a little more air tight, but the fact is that video from a public meeting cannot be restricted in such ways. Only if they charged admission or held a private meeting could a waiver be used to stop your use of whatever you tape. It is actually possible that by FORCING you to sign a waiver to video a public meeting, that they crossed a legal line someplace. I will have to look that up. Regards Did someone say Coookie!! Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 02:52 am by Hawkflyer |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
bohdi wrote: Who wants a cookie I'll take one at the next VCDL meeting. While I've got you, how did you come to choose your pseudonym? If I recall, it means, "One who has attained spiritual perfection." |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
Hawkflyer wrote: Did someone say Coookie!! Yes, but they spelled it, Caol Ila. (Darn, auto-suggested m'self right into a powerful thirst for something slightly peat-y and a bit smoky tasting. Y'all will have to 'scuse me for a little while.) Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 02:58 am by Citizen |
|||||||||
|
Tomahawk Regular Member
|
On signing waivers: I learned within a few minutes of siging my enlistment contract not to ever sign anything someone sticks in front of you without serious contemplation of what you're getting into or giving away. (Anyone here knows what USMC means, right? Hint: it's not Uncle Sam's Misguided Children...) I certainly wouldn't trust a document shoved in my face by such rude and shifty-eyed folks as the MMMs. Don't sign nuttin'. |
|||||||||
|
longwatch Founder's Club Member
|
Tomahawk wrote: On signing waivers: I learned within a few minutes of siging my enlistment contract not to ever sign anything someone sticks in front of you without serious contemplation of what you're getting into or giving away. (Anyone here knows what USMC means, right? Hint: it's not Uncle Sam's Misguided Children...)Been there, done that, got the Tshirt, and I know what USMC means. Never sign your rights away. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
Citizen wrote:Hawkflyer wrote:Did someone say Coookie!! Good Idea, I think I'll have a Brandy. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Tess wrote: bohdi wrote:Horrid, you evil lurker Of course it's unenforceable. That's why NS should have signed it in the first place. He just wasn't quick enough. Signing it and getting a copy of the waiver would have allowed the meeting to take place and for the video to be recorded. Oh well. Maybe next time. But the MMMers will just come up with some new angle for someone to fall for. |
|||||||||
|
Virginiaplanter Regular Member 
|
Bohdi, I Object to Hawkflyers answer under § vscr-5:17 (c) "An assignment of error which merely states that the judgment or award is contrary to the law and the evidence is not sufficient." The correct answer and citation of authority is: 1) The contract in its ratified form does not affect Bohdi because of The Doctrine of Contra preferentem: "Used in the connection with the construction of written documents to the effect that an ambiguous provision is construed most strongly against the person who selected the language." Black's Law Dictionary, 5th Ed. Since The term photographic is not defined it therefore it is to be given its ordinary and customary meaning. "In the absence of a contrary definition, words are presumed to have their usual and ordinary meaning. Anderson v. Commonwealth, 182 Va. 560, 565, 29 S.E.2d 838, 840 (1944). " A digital camcorder does not take photgraphs but digital images. Although The meaning of the term photograph is fairly debatible and sometimes used interchangeably, that debate would make it ambiguous. "'Language is ambiguous when it may be understood in more than one way, or simultaneously refers to two or more things.' " Supinger v. Stakes, 255 Va. 198, 205, 495 S.E.2d 813, 817 (1998)". 2) Any contract made in violation of Public Policy is Void Ab initio. The First Amendment is the public policy of the United States expressed by the people in their constitution. The Virginia Bill of Rights Article I, Section 12, first established this right and also protects it. 3) The meeting was held at a public building or place of public accomodation. There is no expectation of privacy in public places. To determine whether a citizen "enjoys a reasonable expectation of privacy . . . we consider whether he [or she] has exhibited an expectation of privacy in the object and whether that expectation is one that 'society is prepared to recognize as reasonable.'" Anderson v. Commonwealth, 25 Va. App. 565, 576, 490 S.E.2d 274, 279 (1997). I believe this is proper legal answer and therefore I lay claim to those cookies. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Citizen wrote: bohdi wrote:Who wants a cookie Lol, you could quite possibly be the one who asked me that very question when I first started posting in the politics section about taxes, the IRS etc with the We The People Congress website and the V for Vendetta protest in DC. Long story short - movie point break, Swayze's charecters name was Bohdi, thought it stuck. Learned later what it meant, I needed something to use so I figured that was better than chumleynuts or monkeynuts or other monikers I use when I don't want to provide a name but have to.... didn't seem right to use the others here. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
HankT wrote:...SNIP So is it your contention that they were looking for a reason not to hold their meeting? |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Tomahawk wrote: On signing waivers: I learned within a few minutes of siging my enlistment contract not to ever sign anything someone sticks in front of you without serious contemplation of what you're getting into or giving away. (Anyone here knows what USMC means, right? Hint: it's not Uncle Sam's Misguided Children...) Navy, Never Again Volunteer Yourself - I got an extra 9 months for not asking the right questions when I dropped out of BUD/s... |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Virginiaplanter wrote: Bohdi, ROFLMAO - for a second I thought I might actually be screwed. You guys are too much. Alright, Sorry Hawk, looks like you'll have to give up the cookie. Of course, at the rate Mr. and Mrs. Bohdi go through cookies, (I'm dieting) there may or may not be any left by the time I get to the next "public" activity that I can attend. Of course, there's always Giant, lol. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Hank, You seem to relish in the fact that you think I (we) failed in our efforts last night. Sure, the intent was to tape the event and we were not sucessful. But, by the MMM cancelling the event, and THAT being recorded, along with all the crazy stuff they said about private meetings and discrimination to name a few (all on video) I think we scored a much more powerful victory than we ever could have imagined. Not only that, but the MMM's agenda was not spread that night. I don't care what they do in a private venue. I do care about my taxpayer funded library being used as a backdrop for attacking freedom. This will be my last reply to your posts Hank. You may not be against us, but I feel you don't support us either. You don't have much of anything positive to add to any discussion, and I'm for one am tired of your negativity. My not wishing to sign a document does not mean "I'm too slow" (retarded?) which is what you implied in your previous post. I don't give a hoot whether it's enforcible or not. I don't care to take the time away from work or spend money to defend myself against silly suits in court. I encourage everyone else who is sick of Hank to do the same (ignore). Goodbye Hank. |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
Virginiaplanter wrote: Bohdi, Virginiaplanter, excellent first post and that's a LONG way to get a cookie! Welcome aboard! |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
Virginiaplanter wrote:Bohdi, All true, but the implication was that speed was important in responding. After all Citizen is a cookie guy too. You did leave out that this is not really ambiguous any more. The Scientific Working Group on Digital Imaging Technologies, has defined Photographic and digital video as separate and distinct forms of image capture. Those definitions have been tested in court. Regards |
|||||||||
|
Tomahawk Regular Member
|
Okay, I finally watched the whole 3 videos. That woman's voice made me want to listen to nails on a chalkboard to relax after a few minutes, but I think it's pretty funny that the only thing we have to do to make the antis give up and quit is to show up and watch or tape them. Had I been there I would have been tempted to laugh at them and told them they were scattering like roaches when the light comes on. I really have trouble taking these people seriously after we crashed their news conference back in January and they threw a hissy fit. I guess the old saying is true: Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Now, expect them to show up at the next VCDL meeting of course. Be aware. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Hawkflyer wrote: Virginiaplanter wrote: I'm in a compromising mood, three cookies are to be had, but while I'm at it I'll probably owe one to Citizen and BobCav for adding some common sense at a critical time. Not to mention Bob just has me rolling most of the time with his posts! I'm off to render, then splice, and render again, and play some battlefield 2. Hopefully I'll have this posted to youtube by tomorrow, editing is done. |
|||||||||
|
VAopencarry Regular Member
|
unrequited wrote: THAT IS HYSTERICAL!!!!!!! I almost fell out of my seat laughing. |
|||||||||
|
longwatch Founder's Club Member
|
Tomahawk wrote: Okay, I finally watched the whole 3 videos.Think we should have some waivers ready for them? Something to the effect: Welcome to our meeting. As this area has being designated as free zone, we cannot be held responsible for damage done to authoritarian notions or tyrannical ideals. Do not be alarmed if you feel free in the next hour and you abandon your statist or gun control principles. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
Tomahawk wrote:Okay, I finally watched the whole 3 videos. "In peace, there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness, and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger, stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood...now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide, hold hard the breath, and bend up every spirit to its full height!" - William shakespeare They will never walk into a room full of armed citizens. If they do they will be expected to behave just as well as any VCDL member. Regards Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 04:21 am by Hawkflyer |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: Hank, No, I don't relish it. Just acknowledge it. I complimented you on the quality of the video that was made and posted. I complimented you for the audio posting. I complimented Horrid Mischief for his comments. But if I critique your two, count em' two failed opportunities to videotape a MMM meeting, then you get all pouty. I see that as pretty self-centered on your part. You take the compliments but no, no criticism for you. Must be nice to live in a dream world like that, where the only comments allowed are those which are PC ones. nakedshoplifter wrote: Hank, No, I don't relish it. Just acknowledge it. I complimented you on the quality of the video that was made and posted. I complimented you for the audio posting. I compllimented Horrid Mischief for his comments. But if I critique your two, count em' two failed opportunities to videotape a MMM meeting, then you get all pouty. I see that as pretty self-centered on your part. You take the compliments but no, no criticism for you. Must be nice to live in a dream world like that. nakedshoplifter wrote:
Oh please. You're just trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The objective was to tape the meeting (after getting snookered out of doing it the last time). It was IMPLICIT in taping it that THE MEETING WOULD TAKE PLACE AND THAT THEREFORE THE MMM'S AGENDA WOULD BE SPREAD. The mental gymnastics required to say that we are all BETTER OFF for your being the direct cause of the cancellation of the meeting are pretty extreme. I would grant that the footage of the goofy MMMers cancelling the meeting for the reason they did is very good. But not as good as the meeting. And the woman asking you a bunch of questions is going to be used to make the interloper group of armed VCDL group members (something like that) look really bad. She OWN3d you. nakedshoplifter wrote:
I fiercely support the RKBA and effective and thoughtful efforts by others to do the same. I don't beleive your efforts fall in there. Others signed that same waiver and weren't troubled by trivialities like too much space between the lines. There is no way you would have gotten sued. You just compromised and caved in. Twice. That's my opinion. nakedshoplifter wrote:
I encourage someone, anyone, to actually tape a MMM meeting someday. Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 04:31 am by HankT |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
We'll need two videographers at the VCDL meetings. One to tape the meeting, and one to tape them. Does anybody have an audio recording of the first MMM meeting in Burke to refute the accusations about our side's behavior? I don't think our side did anything genuinely disruptive at Burke except try to ask questions or clear up some mis-quoted law. Our side didn't shout chants, or try incessantly to ask questions if I understand things. Didn't somebody say in the earlier posts that our side raised their hands to ask questions? |
|||||||||
|
Tomahawk Regular Member
|
Hawkflyer wrote: Tomahawk wrote: Henry V. I loved the film adaptation with Kenneth Branagh. Although I like Longwatch's idea better. Make some light-hearted mock "waivers" and invite them in to listen as we don't throw a fit, don't run away, don't ask them to "move your cookies so they don't touch ours, ewww..." and don't fail to invite them Fuddrucker's for an ostrich burger afterwards. Explain to them that although we'd prefer they not heckle us in the meeting or use foul language like they do at their meetings, they're free to protest all they'd like, as it just pumps up our membership, and that once the speaker has finished delivering the news, we'd be happy to talk with them. Just don't get between me and that ostrich burger. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Citizen wrote: Does anybody have an audio recording of the first MMM meeting in Burke to refute the accusations about our side's behavior? I don't think our side did anything genuinely disruptive at Burke except try to ask questions or clear up some mis-quoted law. Our side didn't shout chants, or try incessantly to ask questions if I understand things. Didn't somebody say in the earlier posts that our side raised their hands to ask questions? On the "disruptive" question, here's what Longwatch said at the time: The only thing that I would take issue with is interupting the speakers (if I read it correctly). I know it was with the truth but I think we might do better with being exceptionally polite. Raising our hands to be called on if we wish to speak and so on. Makes us look even more reasonable and may help to keep their minds open enough to hear what we are saying. And here's what Hawkflyer said: If you look at all this from their point of view, the VCDL presence at their meeting was excessive and it was frightening. From what I have read, if the armed citizens did not outnumber them, it was close. So how would they see such a presence of armed strangers that virtually took over their meeting, and certainly had an impact on the evenings agenda? Now I know I will hear all about how open VCDL would have been if the situation were reversed. But suppose 25 off duty BATFE agents showed up at a normal VCDL meeting wearing guns and BATF hats, filed into the room and said nothing about why they were there? Suppose they started milling around with cameras taking pictures of people and close-ups of the firearms. Gee, do you think this forum would have remained quiet that night? Both Hawkflyer and Longwatch clearly felt the OCDC/VCDL group must have been "disruptive." And for Hawk to compare it to a BATF incursion pretty speaks clearly to that issue. That's why the MMMers were so reactive and retaliatory at the Centreville meeting. Thoroughly predictable. Yes, indeed, obviously the OCDC/VCDL group was "disruptive" at the MMM meeting in Burke. To not see that is to be in denial. Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 05:11 am by HankT |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
Tomahawk wrote:...SNIP I think it is important that the VCDL meeting go as planned. But people do need to be aware that the MMM has a reputation for not only uncivilized behavior, but actual violence against opponents. As an organization they have NEVER taken a stand against their members violently striking out against opponents. There are also a number of reports of them canceling meetings long before this, when pro-rights people try to attend. So people should not be surprised if they show up with the specific intent of creating an incident. This potential puts the full burden of civilized lawful behavior on VCDL members. Under these circumstances it would be very important for the meeting to be run very formally, and require people be recognized by the chair before speaking from the floor. All that said, let them come. VCDL is a pro-rights group, and I do not believe that they would EVER suppress anyone, or their right to speak. I am compelled to add that, I do not require anyone to put any spin on what I have said in the past concerning these MMM meetings. Out of context distortions do not reflect the truth. Regards Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 05:01 am by Hawkflyer |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
Mock waivers is a GREAT idea! Sample waiver: "I, ______________, during my attendance at any 2nd Amend rights organization meeting, agree not to advocate denial of the basic human right to self-defense without also publicly advocating repeal of laws against rape, murder, and mayhem (legal definition), understanding full well that if a life is not worth defending in the instant of attack, it is not worth enough to criminalize taking it away or gravely injuring it. I further agree: 1. To not interfere with others who have sufficient sense of personal responsibility to be prepared to stop grave bodily injury or death of themselves or loved ones in the instant of attack. 1A. To not interfere with others who have enough personal courage to fight back against such an attack, rather than denying the right to others just because I know I would "freeze" in terror and be unable to defend myself. 1B. To not interfere with others' right to self-defense just to memorialize and keep alive the memory of a lost loved one, or hold at bay the terror of imagined attack upon myself or loved one. 2. To waive my own right to self-defense; and hold harmless the members if they do not defend me against attack by non-members. 3. To refrain from pretending that military-type arms and the collective right to self-defense are not just the natural aggregate of the individual right to self-defense without also advocating the legalization of genocide and democide (homicide committed by a government against its own citizens). 4. To refrain from emotional outbursts. 5. To refrain from introducing distortions or falsehoods. 6. To keep my hands off their cookies. ______________________ __________ Lay ID here for photo Signed Date (Sorry, we don't trust you) Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 05:08 am by Citizen |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
Citizen wrote:Mock waivers is a GREAT idea! Sample waiver: The cameras, you left out the cameras. Also audio recordings. My god man these people should not be allow to record the truth, it would upset Rossie. Regards (its back) |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
No sweat about cameras. We're generous. If they don't bring their own, we'll provide them DVDs of the meeting and themselves. |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
Good point about them being possibly violent. We can just walk the video across the hall to the police station. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
Citizen wrote:No sweat about cameras. We're generous. If they don't bring their own, we'll provide them DVDs of the meeting and themselves. I was thinking that myself, but I did not want to make work for anyone. You know, VCDL might want to consider excluding cameras, taping the event, and offering the DVD to anyone who wants one for a "reasonable" price. Of course I would not suggest they take any checks. Regards |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Hawkflyer wrote: I am compelled to add that, I do not require anyone to put any spin on what I have said in the past concerning these MMM meetings. Out of context distortions do not reflect the truth. So, what is "out of context" in this quote of what you said? If you look at all this from their point of view, the VCDL presence at their meeting was excessive and it was frightening. From what I have read, if the armed citizens did not outnumber them, it was close. So how would they see such a presence of armed strangers that virtually took over their meeting, and certainly had an impact on the evenings agenda? Now I know I will hear all about how open VCDL would have been if the situation were reversed. But suppose 25 off duty BATFE agents showed up at a normal VCDL meeting wearing guns and BATF hats, filed into the room and said nothing about why they were there? Suppose they started milling around with cameras taking pictures of people and close-ups of the firearms. Gee, do you think this forum would have remained quiet that night? Where you trying to say something other than what you actually typed? Are you recanting what you said? Or what? Are you just doing the "I wish I hadn't said that dance?" Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 05:20 am by HankT |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Hawkflyer wrote: Citizen wrote: Offer them for free I say, ask for them to cover postage, especially if they'd like it over nighted I would offer up my ability to reproduce DVDs of this nature but there may be others who could do so more quickly with the right equipment. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
bohdi wrote:Hawkflyer wrote:Citizen wrote: I actually can do it myself. 3 AVIDs, and a few authoring machines ought to do the trick. But I was hoping to figure out some way to have the MMM contribute to our cause $$$.. Actually the MMM should have thought of that. They could have paid for their speaker by selling the DVDs. Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 05:44 am by Hawkflyer |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
(announcer whispering.....) We've secretly replaced this MMM protester's VCDL meeting video with a copy of NAKEDSHOPLIFTERS video of THEIR OWN meeting.... (and RAMBO First Blood). Let's follow them home and see what happens... (car pulls into driveway, shuts off, door opens, closes) (footsteps...) (front door opens, closes.) (sounds of tv and dvd disk being inserted) HONEY!? Come here, I want you and the kids to see what a good job mommy did crashing the meeting of those vile evil gun carrying jerks that crashed our meeting! Here we go kids! Wait a minute..... What the f.... WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SH%T??? THIS ISN'T WHAT I PAID FOR! THOSE FILTHY C(#K 5U#*@NG FUC&#%@ BA5(@^#!!! I WANT MY MONEY... Hey look, there's mommy! Oh no, I KNEW that dress would make me look fat! SONUVABITCH! Never show that video to ANYONE!! NEVER!!! |
|||||||||
|
Citizen Founder's Club Member
|
BobCav, you're sneaky. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
You know you make me think of a very interesting aspect of all this. There was a discovery channel program a few years ago on the "new" KKK. In this video they interviewed a lot of KKK wives. OF course they showed a lot of kids too. It was actually sickening to watch them educate these children in hatred and bigotry. Can imagine little 3 year olds and even babes in arms in sheets with "pin head" hats on. That is what this program showed. It would not be unreasonable to believe that is exactly what is going on in the homes of the MMM members. You know their part line is not just a simple "guns kill kids", it is actually a demonization of gun owners. They do not let their children play with the children of gun owners, and there are reports from California that they actually teach their kids to bully the children of gun owners. Kind of sick really. I want my country back. Regards Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 06:17 am by Hawkflyer |
|||||||||
|
Lew Regular Member
|
If they showed up to the meeting, wouldn't they collapse under the logic? I mean, if nobody got shot, could they stand there arguing about how dangerous firearms are? (I know the answer, I'm just sayin...) |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=knotageek&p=r You should see the first 6 minutes with some additional information of the pre-meeting footage, named part 1, 2, and 3. I may post the entire thing if I get another app to help out. http://www.youtube.com/my_videos Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 12:39 pm by bohdi |
|||||||||
|
unrequited Regular Member
|
bohdi wrote:http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=knotageek&p=r Double-filming was a GREAT idea. I remember this lady (nasty!) and the yappy blonde one who ended up making the announcement. Thanks for upping these. |
|||||||||
|
Reverend73 Founder's Club Member
|
HankT wrote:
How 'bout you put your money where your mouth is and YOU tape the next one. |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
Wow bohdi, great video as well. That's all they had that showed up? You would think that the LARGEST CHAPTER of the MILLION MOM'S they would need a much larger space! I guess they just don't know what it means to be passionate about something. These are the kinds of people who turned in family members to the Gestapo. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
BobCav wrote: Wow bohdi, great video as well. That's all they had that showed up? You would think that the LARGEST CHAPTER of the MILLION MOM'S they would need a much larger space! Thanks Bob. I need to take some of NS suggestions and I may end up reposting with clearer video, it's going to be a bit but I sacraficed the quality of the video for speed of posting. I found it interesting that the lady giving NS a hard time about signing the waiver turned on what I thought to be another MMM member/supporter when he offered to pay for the copy of the waiver I asked for and said "What does it matter?". Not so nice. I wasn't going to offer to pay for it, they wanted to demand me to sign it, fine, but your damn well going to provide me a copy free of charge. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
No problem with not cleaning up the video to increase speed. I wanted to brighten mine up and do some color correction (my cheapo camera does not produce the best image, but software can make up for that). I'm still fairly new to video editing and using my software so it takes me quite a while to get a final product out of production. |
|||||||||
|
.40 Cal State Researcher 
|
Does anyone else think the little Asian woman is cute? |
|||||||||
|
Horrid Mischief Regular Member
|
.40 Cal wrote: Does anyone else think the little Asian woman is cute? Yeah, she was pretty easy on the eyes. She was also very polite and did not show an ouce of hostility that I saw. She struck me as simply a camera operator without a "dog in the fight" but someone else said she was with the MMM. (Or at least using one of their cameras.) |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
I thought that it was interesting that NakedShoplifter (NS), standing quietly at the rear of the room, was perceived as "disrupting the meeting". It seemed to me that he kept pretty much to himself, didn't shout, try to talk to anyone, didn't prevent anyone from coming or going. I guess this activity falls under some definition of "disrupt" that I am unfamiliar with. The very nice lady at the end clearly implied that the LEO was their on his own time. Words to the effect "... our speakers have given of their own time...". Hummm? Based on what I saw in the video the meeting was not shut down because of anything our guys did or did not do. It was the guest speaker who closed down the meeting, by refusing to speak. I suspect that has a lot more to do with his current relationship with the NRA than it does anything else. I bet it has a lot to do with what he is saying about the NRA in these presentations being proprietary to the NRA and the likelihood he will get sued. He of course would not want video evidence to show up in a civil court showing him violating any such agreement. Both of the video guys did a great job in putting this stuff up. I too was surprised by the size of the room. Not so much for the number of chairs, but for the lack of grazing room. Regards |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
.40 Cal wrote: Does anyone else think the little Asian woman is cute? How sexist of you!! That's horrible! Women are MORE than just objects! (I thought she was too!-lol) |
|||||||||
|
KodiakISGOOD Regular Member
|
BobCav wrote: .40 Cal wrote:Does anyone else think the little Asian woman is cute? i think it went something like that.... happy carrying, jason |
|||||||||
|
rabbit994 Regular Member
|
Something that bothers me about people saying signing the waiver because it isn't legally enforceable. What the hell ever happened to being honest? If your going to put your signature on something, either follow what it says or refuse to sign it. Don't lie, cheat or steal or tolerate those who do. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
rabbit994 wrote: Something that bothers me about people saying signing the waiver because it isn't legally enforceable. I think it is legally enforcable as it pertains to photographic representations, and that's all. Why do you feel or think anyone is being dishonest? |
|||||||||
|
rabbit994 Regular Member
|
I didn't think people were being dishonest. I found dishonest the suggestion to sign and disregard said waiver because it may or may not be legally enforceable. The legally enforceable part secondary to whole "keeping your word" part. |
|||||||||
|
BobCav Founder's Club Member
|
rabbit994 wrote: I didn't think people were being dishonest. I found dishonest the suggestion to sign and disregard said waiver because it may or may not be legally enforceable. The legally enforceable part secondary to whole "keeping your word" part. Though common in legal circles, it's called being two-faced where I'm from. Legality is one thing, and morality is another. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Hawkflyer wrote: I thought that it was interesting that NakedShoplifter (NS), standing quietly at the rear of the room, was perceived as "disrupting the meeting". I think the terming of "disrupting the meeting," from MMMer point of view, is a carryover from the Burke meeting. Here's what one person described that "disruptive" event as: If you look at all this from their point of view, the VCDL presence at their meeting was excessive and it was frightening. From what I have read, if the armed citizens did not outnumber them, it was close. So how would they see such a presence of armed strangers that virtually took over their meeting, and certainly had an impact on the evenings agenda? Now I know I will hear all about how open VCDL would have been if the situation were reversed. But suppose 25 off duty BATFE agents showed up at a normal VCDL meeting wearing guns and BATF hats, filed into the room and said nothing about why they were there? Suppose they started milling around with cameras taking pictures of people and close-ups of the firearms. Gee, do you think this forum would have remained quiet that night? Many here say repeatedly that any fear others have, or any angst they may feel toward a person carrying is their problem. I would agree with that view if three or four armed citizens just happened to show up at a MMM meeting. Or someone is just going about their normal daily routine. But that is not what happened here. Clearly some people went there with the specific intent of "getting in their face" on the gun issue. The meeting was political because that is what the MMM is about, and the attendance by armed citizens had a political, not a routine informational purpose. It would be amazing to me if most here did not know very well what the reaction would be. That writer is you, Hawkflyer. So, I fail to see how you don't see the accuracy of what the MMMer said. You yourself authoritatively declared "the VCDL presence at their meeting was excessive and it was frightening." and that the VCDL/OCDC members went there "with the specific intent of "getting in their face." I'd say that is a definition of "disruptive" the even an 8th grader would be familiar with. People don't forget that kind of "excessive" and "frightening" stuff in two weeks. And certainly not when the same guys show up again. Hawk, if you're changing your description of the first meeting now, for whatever convenient reasons, at least have the ethics and the decency to recant it. Or go back and delete it from your initial posts. All you have to do is apologize for having said the above three complete paragraphs. Everybody will understand. Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 07:20 pm by HankT |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
bohdi wrote:rabbit994 wrote:Something that bothers me about people saying signing the waiver because it isn't legally enforceable. This is essentially correct. AFAICT no one is being dishonest here at all. It is certainly not the responsibility of someone being asked to sign a waiver to point out that it would be inapplicable or unenforceable against the signer based on the specific technology the person is using. Not signing such a waiver is a reasonable position to take for public meetings held on public property. Just as signing it because it is inapplicable would be. If the MMM wants to stop photography or video in their meetings all they have to do is close the meetings, hold them on private property, exclude anyone with a camera, and of course pay the taxes required as a result of losing their tax exempt status. Regards |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Hawkflyer wrote: bohdi wrote: I would agree with the highlighted parts, for sure. I would also suggest that the prudent thing to do, if one was unsure about the enforceability of the waiver that one could have signed it, taken the video and then checked out the enforceability/legality questions with some trusted experts outside of any situational or time constraints. Nakedshoplifter should have signed the waiver, gotten a photocopy, taken the video and then gotten the good advice before he did anything with the video. After getting trusted expert advice, he could then decide what to do with the video. NS had a 2nd chance to record (good video quality on what he did get, btw) a MMM meeting and he simply let the opportunity slip away. Oh, well. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
HankT wrote: Hawkflyer wrote:I thought that it was interesting that NakedShoplifter (NS), standing quietly at the rear of the room, was perceived as "disrupting the meeting". Hank, I might be able to agree with this position if the exact same setting occoured as the Burke meeting. Some one please correct me if I am wrong, but was there a policeman at the original? If not that would be one difference between the two. Secondly I did not see anyone open carrying, therefore I don't understand where this fear they felt in Burke was present in Centreville, especially since they had a visible Law Enforcement presence, there were actually two LEO's at one time present. Third I couldn't say there was an excessive show of any organized effort upon VCDL, and I don't know that you can say that individuals that seek information here and make their own minds up about whether or not to go, and I seriously doubt the MMMer's had a hit list of prior attendees to help them eyeball people coming to this meeting. After all, I believe they thought I was NS when I first got there the way they were treating me. The four people who I now know to be VCDL members weren't sitting together in a corner with a sign. Fourth these adults had the choice of continuing their publicly advertised, publicly held meeting that they deemed to term private prior to announcing the meeting cancellation, but instead of that they opted to try and play the sympathy card to their crowd and people who didn't know any better, and to be quite honest, it might have worked a tad, but with the footage that NS and I put out, I think people will see past that. So to say that anyone at the meeting was disruptive at this particular meeting is a stretch sir. It would be entirely different if the meeting had started, and NS and I walked in, joking and being loud and obnoxious, whooting and hollering, and openly carrying. This of course, is not what happened. The meeting never started, therefore it could not be disrupted. Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 07:42 pm by bohdi |
|||||||||
|
.40 Cal State Researcher
|
Let it go Hank. |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
Happy 1K, Hawk! |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
I think the pertinent issue regarding the waivers is that forcing someone to sign it is wrong as follows-Previous email from the Fairfax County Public Library staff: So Naked, stood up for his rights. I applaud you for refusing to compromise your right to attend and record a PUBLIC meeting held on PUBLIC property, paid for by the PUBLIC. For more on the VCDL position see THIS THREAD Regards |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
.40 Cal wrote:Let it go Hank. "Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." - William Shakespeare (1564–1616) Regards |
|||||||||
|
HankT State Researcher
|
.40 Cal wrote: Let it go Hank. Hey, .40 Cal! I was going to say good goin' for your recent post. Nice use of irony/sarcasm to get your point across. It was very good. 40 Cal wrote: We need more moderation! Please set some more controls on us so that our free speach doesn't offend anyone else. These constant exchanges of individual thought are detrimental to the long-term control of the members of this forum. How can you expect everyone to think the same way if you don't impose stricter moderation? In the name of L Ron Hubbard, add some controls! Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 08:01 pm by HankT |
|||||||||
|
.40 Cal State Researcher
|
"OK, I'm sorry Hank", .40 says as he cautiously removes the collar and releases the creature on the crowd. |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Wow! The MMM couldn't even find a "MOM" to lead it's D.C. chapter? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zGk3TPVbg |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: Wow! The MMM couldn't even find a "MOM" to lead it's D.C. chapter? Funny. |
|||||||||
|
Tess Founder's Club Member
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: Wow! The MMM couldn't even find a "MOM" to lead it's D.C. chapter? If he thinks DC has weak gun laws, I'd like to see what he considers draconian! |
|||||||||
|
Tomahawk Regular Member
|
nakedshoplifter wrote: Wow! The MMM couldn't even find a "MOM" to lead it's D.C. chapter? What a poon. Notice that "comments for this video have been disabled". I guess that's the 3M way: You will sit down, shut up, and listen to us, without comment or arguments. |
|||||||||
|
Hawkflyer Founder's Club Member
|
Tomahawk wrote:nakedshoplifter wrote:Wow! The MMM couldn't even find a "MOM" to lead it's D.C. chapter? I think it is save to say you may have identified a pattern. Regards |
|||||||||
|
nakedshoplifter Regular Member
|
Most of the BB Youtube videos do not allow comments. |
|||||||||
|
Wooley Regular Member
|
MMM hereby referred to as 4M...not 3M.... Million Mr. Mom March. Fauquier....you know, Fauquier for 4M!!! |
|||||||||
|
VAopencarry Regular Member
|
Regarding the legality of the waiver. Let's pretend it was iron clad and binding. Well the 'meeting' never started. All the video footage is prior to the meeting, that never happened. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
VAopencarry wrote: Regarding the legality of the waiver. Let's pretend it was iron clad and binding. +1 exactly, there was also a third way out that I started with, thank god I didn't have to continue down that road though. Transcribing would have been a mother. |
|||||||||
|
bohdi Regular Member
|
Since they've refused to completely correct this story, I've sent the following to the papers four editors as well as posted it to the comments section on the story. Dear Editor, I am writing because I am disturbed about the way the reporting was done on the article printed last week in this paper regarding a meeting held on 6-4-07 at the Centreville Regional Library. Your writer Layla Wilder has taken a certain liberty describing events and distorting what happened that evening. While your paper has made two corrections that I’ve requested there is still one that needs fixing, that your paper has informed me it will not do, so it is my responsibility to ensure the public has the correct information. You printed the following in this article: “ “We just want to have meetings without everything getting distorted and ending up on YouTube," Hartnett said. Chris Rohland, a resident of Centreville, signed the contract, but later posted footage of the confrontation on YouTube. "It was a public meeting that was publicly advertised," Rohland said. "I wanted to tape it to share the information with other people." “ While these statements are not incorrect, without providing more detail about the waiver and what happened implies that I had no regard whatsoever for the WAIVER that I signed. This simply is not correct. Your paper does correctly state the WAIVER was for photographic representations of the meeting, but the meeting was never started or called to order. Therefore I had no obligation to respect anything on that paper, regardless of what it said. Not only is it unfortunate that your report has chosen to put an untrue spin on this story, it is unfortunate that things turned out the way they did. I was among many pro-gun advocates that would have liked to have heard what the Northern Virginia Million Mom March Chapter and Bob Ricker had to say. For a group such as this who would like to spread their message it’s amazing that they choose not to use all available media resources available. YouTube is an inexpensive and free service that allows people to see and hear information on just about anything. It would do the Million Mom March organization wonders to use this outlet to spread their views. After all, with two of their own videographers and an armed Fairfax County Police Officer at the meeting, they surely couldn’t have felt intimidated or threatened in any way by anything I was doing. I hope both the TimesCommunity.com, The Fairfax County Times, and the Centreview Newspapers do more in the future to represent the whole truth, and not put a sensationalize spin on a story such as this. Sincerely, Chris Rohland |
|||||||||
|
rabbit994 Regular Member
|
bohdi wrote: Since they've refused to completely correct this story, I've sent the following to the papers four editors as well as posted it to the comments section on the story.Figured they would point out "HE SIGNED THE WAIVER!!!!!" Last edited on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 09:55 pm by rabbit994 |
|||||||||