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albritton77 Regular Member 
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I was in the Cañon City Wal-Mart a couple of weeks ago with my wife and 3 children.... open carrying, of course. The manager(?) of the place approached me and asked me if I had “credentials” for my firearm. I looked at the gentleman for a few seconds, and within those few seconds I contemplated the approach of “It's legal to open-carry without a license in Colorado” vs. showing him my CCW license. I decided to show him my license.... just to see what his reaction would be. He looked at my “credentials,” looked at me, gave me my license back, and said “have a nice day.” Now.... before all of you die-hard “you have no right to ask me for identification” individuals get mad at me and ostracize me from this discussion board, let me speak in my own defense. I was not threatened, intimidated, or otherwise ordered to show my identification in any way. A private business owner/manager(ish) merely asked a question, and I could have answered that question in more than one way. I chose to handle that situation in that manner for the following reason:
All in all, even though it was a mildly annoying situation to start with, it didn't turn badly. A local Wal-Mart also learned ON CAMERA that not all people with guns are bad. (It's been quite some time since I've seen a Wal-Mart without surveillance cameras on their ceilings.) Ok. I'm done. You can crucify me for showing an ID now. <grin> |
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mahkagari Regular Member
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Actually, I like this approach. I might've shown my rock gym membership card to see the reaction and pointed out that to get the membership I had to be of majority age, same as for OC. (Yes, I know 18 vs. 21, but it still spurs thinking about real "credentials" than assumptions.) Or better yet, my no picture supermarket club card! Last edited on Wed May 27th, 2009 06:17 pm by mahkagari |
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centsi Campaign Veteran
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I don't have an issue with your response. That's why it's yours  . Sounds like the manager "asked" to see your credentials, even though they don't really exist, and you decided to make him feel comfortable by showing him your CCW. I have an issue with public authority demanding something without reasonable suspicion. |
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doublewide Regular Member 
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Good, quick thinking! I like that approach. |
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doublewide Regular Member
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Good, quick thinking! I like that approach. |
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old dog Regular Member
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What would your response have been had he accosted you in the parking lot and asked if you had a driving license? People too-readily accede to invasions of privacy. If he is unhappy with you he probably has a virtually unlimited right to ask you to leave. However, he doesn't have a right to ask if you have money or a credit card or if you can afford to shop in his store or if you're employed or if you have a record or if you patronize his competitors or . . . hell, you get it. One of the things most needed by our people is a major leaving-alone. Last edited on Thu May 28th, 2009 09:29 am by old dog |
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SANDCREEK Regular Member 
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W/M parking lot is one of the most dangerous places on earth. Different situation than shopping area inside store. Manager has every right to satisfy any concern over questionable status of armed person inside. If W/M keeps getting pushed into a corner on this OC issue - guess what ! They WILL issue a "formal policy" - and we won't like it. These are the folks that require a firearm purchase to be escorted out of the store. It's their store - respect that. I OC from my parking space to front door of stores regularly - and then sometimes opt to CC at door for reasons that I deem justifiable. After shopping I may again choose to display holstered weapon on return to vehicle. This dogmatic tendancy of some OC advocates is counter-productive to the cause. Remember - "Extremism always brings about its own destruction" |
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albritton77 Regular Member
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old dog wrote: What would your response have been had he accosted you in the parking lot and asked if you had a driving license? Until open carry becomes legitimately commonplace, we won't be left alone. Why? Because we (open carry people) are the exception (although perfectly legal) to everyday conduct. Being the exception *to anything* is going to get some sort of attention. We can handle that attention in only two different ways: 1.) We can get frustrated at the attention we bring upon ourselves, and give ourselves a black eye for our complete lack of patience and understanding towards the rest of society. 2.) We can start (re)teaching the populous that people who open carry are NOT criminals, that what we are doing is perfectly legal, and should be socially acceptable. Personally, I prefer the latter of the two. |
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mahkagari Regular Member
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albritton77 wrote:
Absolutely. All the more reason to good naturedly smile and show him your Subway sandwich of the month club card. Wait, I think you can be a minor and have one of those. |
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CJ30-06 Regular Member
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this was a couple months ago, but I was in Salida Wal-mart, and there was an off duty cop in there, he had already seen me and done nothing, but some of the people got concerned so he asked me if I had a permit, I semi-chuckled and said that I did not need one for open carry, he asked for my ID and I said he didn't need that either. He then threatened bringing a uniformed, on duty cop there, I told him to go ahead and do that, that kinda surprised him, so I went ahead and gave it to him after he said that people were concerned, I also had told him my reason for open carry; self-defense. He just wrote down my ID numbers and I went on my way, he kept saying it wasn't a good idea to carry in wal-mart, I replied by saying that if anyone did attempt to commit a "shooting", I was not going to be unarmed. This was about the worst I've ever dealt with so far. One other thing, I like that you showed the manager your ccw, but you see, I can't get one yet, I'm 19 and it's perfectly legal for me to open carry, but not conceal until I'm 21 and can get a permit. |
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albritton77 Regular Member
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Personally, I would have made him get the uniformed officer..... just to make him follow through with such an unjustified threat. The excuse of "the customers are worried" as a need to see your ID was not legally justified and wouldn't have held a drop of water in court. But that's just me.... |
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CJ30-06 Regular Member
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true, but I'd rather NOT get arrested. |
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albritton77 Regular Member
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Arrested for what? |
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hansolo Regular Member 
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Yeah, you are not going to get arrested. The manager can ask you to leave, then you file a complaint with corporate for a violation of policy (state law is Wal Mart law). Or the cop wrongfully arrests you and you have a civil suit on your hands. |
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gunsfreak4791 Regular Member
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SANDCREEK wrote: If W/M keeps getting pushed into a corner on this OC issue - guess what ! They WILL issue a "formal policy" - and we won't like it. These are the folks that require a firearm purchase to be escorted out of the store. It's their store - respect that. Remember - "Extremism always brings about its own destruction" So your saying Wal-Mart is going to come out with a policy for Fire-Arms if we keep OC'ing Correct. I wish Wal-Mart would come up with a policy so it could be challenged. Your fears about Wal-Mart are based on your own Ignorance. See I have been pushing Wal-Mart for years to come out with a policy. Now grasshopper if a company this large came out with a policy stating no guns they would loose bussiness in the millions. It's Far better for Wal-Mart to sit on the fenceline and give the District manager the approval to make that decision. I have spoken with some very high up people who have stated in confidence that a policy for or against firearms on a coperate level will never happen. I hope that OC'ing will continue in Wal-marts accross the country. The more expousure to Firearms and the more questions asked will result in people becoming more welcoming of firearms in public |
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CJ30-06 Regular Member
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so they don't have a policy? cause Gunnison wal-mart asked me to leave, and said it was wal-mart policy, but she wasn't even a head manager.And the one in Salida doesn't even care so far. |
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gunsfreak4791 Regular Member
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The policy for Wal-Mart is to put it in the hands of The District Manager |
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AB Regular Member 
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Walmart policy is to follow the state that the store is in. It has been set by the legal staff at HQ. There are store managers that are ignorant of this policy. If they put anything in writing it causes a liability burden. It is that simple, anything else is just BS. |
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gunsfreak4791 Regular Member
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That means that you can't blame other oc'ers when you get kicked out of Wal- Mart AB. |
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AB Regular Member
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gunsfreak4791 wrote: That means that you can't blame other oc'ers when you get kicked out of Wal- Mart AB. What are you going to do, dictate what someone does on their own property? I guess you just choose what part of the Constitution is important and throw the rest away. Last edited on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 04:12 pm by AB |
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SANDCREEK Regular Member
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I've never had a problem with display of a holstered weapon in W/M, and I OC probably 1/2 the time that I shop there. Store management has authority here . That is obvious to some - apparently not so obvious to others. Ignorance is manifested when the obvious is ignored. Last edited on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 05:02 pm by SANDCREEK |
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Ganghater Regular Member
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albritton77 wrote: old dog wrote:I agree. History has shown that it takes time and patience to change prejudice.What would your response have been had he accosted you in the parking lot and asked if you had a driving license? |
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Gunslinger Regular Member 
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CJ30-06 wrote: this was a couple months ago, but I was in Salida Wal-mart, and there was an off duty cop in there, he had already seen me and done nothing, but some of the people got concerned so he asked me if I had a permit, I semi-chuckled and said that I did not need one for open carry, he asked for my ID and I said he didn't need that either. He then threatened bringing a uniformed, on duty cop there, I told him to go ahead and do that, that kinda surprised him, so I went ahead and gave it to him after he said that people were concerned, I also had told him my reason for open carry; self-defense. He just wrote down my ID numbers and I went on my way, he kept saying it wasn't a good idea to carry in wal-mart, I replied by saying that if anyone did attempt to commit a "shooting", I was not going to be unarmed. This was about the worst I've ever dealt with so far. One other thing, I like that you showed the manager your ccw, but you see, I can't get one yet, I'm 19 and it's perfectly legal for me to open carry, but not conceal until I'm 21 and can get a permit.Part of this was your age. Seeing someone so young OC is going to cause some people to be concerned. With me, they just assume I'm a cop. Still, I'd rather be 19...  |
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CJ30-06 Regular Member
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yeah, but you wanna know what I do when I don't want to be asked ANY quetions? I'm a volunteer firefighter, so I have a radio, when someone sees even a 19 year old, with a beretta 92, and a radio on the other hip, what do you think is the first thing they assume; COP! |
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Wolf81504 Regular Member
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Another idea that you all might find interesting to "break people in" to OC in a store of any sort is to carry an empty holster for a few trips, go regularly, and be seen and noticed. I have been leaving my weapon in the car and carrying an empty holster, and two loaded 17 round mag's in a mag holster. And have still been mistaken for a LEO. So after a while of carrying without a weapon in holster, I will try with a weapon, and hope that the "breaking in" worked. Most people are prone to psycological manipulation by power of suggestion. Read the artical "Raging Against Self Defense" http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ragingagainstselfdefense.htm In this publication Sarah Thompson shares the "Anti-gun Mentality" and why people are afraid of people with guns. The idea of carrying an empty holster kind of came about from reading this article. In the artical Sarah talk's about all kind's of ways to introduce other's to the idea of another person carrying a gun. She also explains why people are afrade of guns. And before you say "I already know" read the article all the way through. It is important for us in the OC community to understand, and show empathy twards individual's and groups that oppose guns. Here is a snip from "The Power of Empathy section of her article. "Using empathy works in several ways. First, it defuses a potentially hostile interaction. Anti-gun people are used to being attacked, not understood, by advocates of gun rights. Instead of an "evil, gun-toting, extremist", you are now a sympathetic, fellow human being. This may also open the door for a friendly conversation, in which you can each discover that your "opponent" is a person with whom you have some things in common. You may even create an opportunity to dispel some of the misinformation about firearms and self-defense that is so prevalent." © 2000, Sarah Thompson After Reading this article, I now understand more of why my dad is against me carrying a gun. He either want's to become a victim, or has controle issues.... Probably the latter since he still tries to tell me that i'm wrong on everything and he isn't.... Anyway Here is a link to the Colorado Department of Law http://www.ago.state.co.us/ Might be of some help sometime in the future as well. Wolf |
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SANDCREEK Regular Member
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Another reason people in general are uncomfortable with the sight of a holstered handgun - is that it interupts their "grade school" frame of mind from which many haven't yet graduated. The presence of another citizen being armed puts the brakes on their disposition to be rude & cocky. It sobers them up a bit - causing them to "recalibrate" their social software. I suspect the presence of a visibly displayed weapon reduces shoplifting as well as other crimes against persons in parking lots. OC will become more accepted once this reality is recognized. |
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Wolf81504 Regular Member
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SANDCREEK wrote: ....I suspect the presence of a visibly displayed weapon reduces shoplifting as well as other crimes against persons in parking lots. OC will become more accepted once this reality is recognized. +1 for this! |
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CJ30-06 Regular Member
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yeah, I've had times when someone was rude to either me or even someone else, and without saying anything to them, or even hinting, once they saw the weapon, they quieted down real quick, I've also had times where someone may have been pretty close to commiting some sort of crime, and nothing happened, so I can only hope that I was the influence that stopped a crime, if one was actually going to be commited. |
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SANDCREEK Regular Member
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Proving that the presence of an armed citizen prevented a potential specific criminal act may be an impossibility - but over a period of time it's not unreasonable to give credit where it is deserved . Many of us have seen enough evidence of the deterrent affect in our own experience to be more than convinced. |
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rpyne Regular Member
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gunsfreak4791 wrote:Remember - "Extremism always brings about its own destruction" Actually, I think Barry Goldwater said it right: "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." |
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Colorado Luckydog Regular Member
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I had a small problem at Walmart on Bowles and C470. I went in and bought grocreies and no one seemed to noticed I was ocing. I went to the truck and put the stuff away and then looked on the ground and found part of someone's wallet. It had personal stuff that someone would want back. I walked back into the store to turn it in and was stopped by the Walmart greeter. He was very nervous when he approached me and asked me if I was a police officer. After he knew I was not, he said he needed to contact his manager to see if he could let me in the store. He said he didn't want to get fired. I let him off easy and told him to turn in the wallet and he needed to check with his manager because I shop there a lot and I would be back with the same gun on my hip. He was very apologetic and very nice. I have been back since and oc and no one said a word. He was not at the door though. I would certainly hate to stop shopping at Walmart. They save me a ton of dough on grocieries, kids clothes, household items and even sporting goods. However, I would stop shopping there so fast it would make their head swim if they did not allow me to carry because of new store policy. I would also tell anyone that would listen to not shop there. Last edited on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 06:52 pm by Colorado Luckydog |
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DVC2010 Regular Member
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CJ30-06 wrote:yeah, I've had times when someone was rude to either me or even someone else, and without saying anything to them, or even hinting, once they saw the weapon, they quieted down real quick, I've also had times where someone may have been pretty close to commiting some sort of crime, and nothing happened, so I can only hope that I was the influence that stopped a crime, if one was actually going to be commited. "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert Heinlein |
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CJ30-06 Regular Member
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hansolo wrote: Yeah, you are not going to get arrested. The manager can ask you to leave, then you file a complaint with corporate for a violation of policy (state law is Wal Mart law). Or the cop wrongfully arrests you and you have a civil suit on your hands. "state law is wal-mart law"? If you can point me in the direction of this info, (such as Wal-mart's website or something) I would be greatly appreciative. (or if anyone else is still watching this topic) |
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RLCbushpilot Regular Member
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Search around on the forum. There have been several threads with evidence that this is Walmart policy. I think someone talked to the director of security for Walmart and confirmed it, with phone numbers attached to the post so that you could check yourself or give to a store manager if you were harassed. It seems to me that I saw that in the Washington state section. |
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CJ30-06 Regular Member
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thank you I'll definitely look around. If you do see it again, let me know though. |
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RLCbushpilot Regular Member
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Here's a link to one of the threads from the Washington forum. I couldn't find the one that had Walmart's security director's phone number in it. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=21920&forum_id=55&highlight=walmart ETA: This thread has the number for the Walmart security director in it. It's from last summer but hopefully it still applies. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=13123&forum_id=55&highlight=%26quot;walmart+security%26quot; Last edited on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 06:52 am by RLCbushpilot |
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dfox Regular Member 
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Here: Walmart Policy is to follow the law of the state the store located. Customer Service1-800-Wal-Mart (1-800-925-6278) Questions regarding a Wal-Mart Store issue 702 SW 8th Street Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. Bentonville, Arkansas 72716-8611 Email contact link: http://walmartstores.com/contactus/feedback.aspx Audio of Walmart Policy: Walmart_Firearm_Policy_Call.mp3 |
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Adamdude04 Regular Member
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I like the way you handled that. I personal look down on these guys that always start an argument against staff of any business about OC laws an such. ..look at it this way, you get asked to see something. You can either argue with them about laws, and odds are be asked to leave, or the Police show up. Either way this wastes your time. You have to go to ANOTHER store, OR wait for the Police to sort this out. Ontop of that, you make OC guys look bad, because you have to argue and argue. Isn't it easier to just show them a CCW license, make them feel better or happier about what's going on? Now there are times where the store managers freak out regardless. I went to walmart one time, and the manager asked if I had a permit or badge. I asked which one he wanted to see. Then all the sudden, his rules changed, and I had to leave. Didn't ask me which one to see. Just I had to leave... either way, to the OP, I like your action. Congradulations. |
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albritton77 Regular Member
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Towards Adamdude04.... Ummmm..... Thank you??? |
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Adamdude04 Regular Member
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albritton77 wrote: Towards Adamdude04.... Simply put, yes, you're welcome |
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Buckskinner15 Regular Member
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How can you open carry a handgun (I assume), when you are not lawfully permitted to purchase one? I am also in that curious in-between age (over 18 but not yet 21), and would be very grateful for any information you can provide. If possible, please reference the applicable laws here in Colorado. Thanks! |
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entartet17 Regular Member 
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You can own and carry a handgun at age 18 but cannot purchase one until age 21. I dont know the relevant laws off the top of my head except this one: (1) (a) Except as provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person who has not attained the age of eighteen years knowingly to have any handgun in such person's possession. |
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Buckskinner15 Regular Member
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entartet17 wrote: You can own and carry a handgun at age 18 but cannot purchase one until age 21. I dont know the relevant laws off the top of my head except this one: Okay, thanks for the info! |
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hansolo Regular Member
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Buckskinner15 wrote: How can you open carry a handgun (I assume), when you are not lawfully permitted to purchase one? I am also in that curious in-between age (over 18 but not yet 21), and would be very grateful for any information you can provide. If possible, please reference the applicable laws here in Colorado. Thanks! You are allowed to purchase at 18. The only restriction is that FFL (Federal Firearm License) holders cannot sell to under 21. |
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CJ30-06 Regular Member
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the easiest, and most legally accepted way is to have your parents/legal guardians buy it for you. And hansolo, I'll have to do some checking on what you said, I'm pretty sure the only person/persons that can give possession of a handgun to anyone under 21, is their parent. Oh, and you MAY be in possession of a handgun under 18, however, only under very limited circumstances, entartet17 quoted the law correctly, but that is not the whole law regarding possession of handguns in Colorado. |
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Yooper Regular Member 
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Federal law prohibits you from puchasing a handgun from a FFL dealer until you are 21. However handguns purchased from private individuals are allowed to be purchased at 18. State law reflects this. So yes, if you are betwen 18 and 21 you can legally purchase a handgun, as long as it's a private sale, and not through a business. The one that gets me, is even if you can posses a hangun @ 18, federal law bans the purchase of handgun ammo by those under 21. I guess, according to them, they don't mind you carrying a gun, as long as the only way to use it is by throwing it at someone. Thankfully, many handgun rounds are also available in carbines, but my friend and I would confuse the crap out of the wal-mart employees (we were under 21 @ the time), when they'd ask us "Is it for a rifle or a handgun", and we'd say "well, not sure, I own a rifle and handgun of that caliber. I can't say whether or not those rounds will or will not be used in the handgun." |
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