|
|
|
OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Wisconsin > Official Milwaukee School Zone Map
|
|
||
| OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Wisconsin > Official Milwaukee School Zone Map
|
|||
| Moderated by: jpierce | ||
| Author | Post | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
eleuthera Regular Member
|
Enjoy! Attachment: 2009-02_Open_Carry_of_Firearms.pdf (Downloaded 469 times) |
|||||||||
|
roconnor14 Regular Member
|
These school zones are ridiculous. I can't step one foot off my front lawn. |
|||||||||
|
Lammie Campaign Veteran
|
Eleuthera: Thank you for posting the document it is very important and I suggest anyone carrying a firearm in Milwaukee and the surrounding area carry one on his person. The Milwaukee police training bulletin on open carry is well written and accurate. On the surface it appears to be quite "out-of-character" for police cheif Flynn. That is until you realize what is, in my opinion, a "hidden agenda". It is apparent that Cheif Flynn is using the school zone law as his "ace-in-the-hole". There is no mention in the bulletin about the private property or school zone awareness or the firearm training exclusions. I suspect anyone stopped inside any of the circles shown on the maps will be in an "interesting" situation much to the glee of Flynn and the Milwaukee mayor. Both would much prefer to charge a person openly carrying a firerm with a felony instead of a disorderly conduct misdemeanor. Call me paranoid if you will but that's the way I see it. That is also why the "school zone restriction" should be our next challenge. Barring an opinion by the Attorney General or the state Supreme Court that ss948.605 is unconstitutional it probably is unrealistic to expect the current legislature to totally repeal the statute. It is too much of an emotional issue especially in that it involves child safety. What we can do is put pressure on the legislature to clean the statute up. Some of the things we can demand are: 1. Make the penalty fit the crime. A law abiding citizen that is carrying a firearm for personal protection within their constitutional rights and who strays into the 1000ft "zone" should not be charged the same as if they had criminal intent. 2. Require that "private" property be thoroughly and accurately defined. For example; businesses, sidewalks, city streets and and other rights-of-ways. 3. Require that the 1000ft zone be abolished or at a minimum reduced to only the school property itself. 4. If abolishment or reduction of the 1000ft zone isn't saleable then at least require the city to post signs marking the boundaries to prevent accidental encroachment by well meaning persons. 5. Allow off duty police officers to carry firearms in a school zone. As the statute now exists off-duty police officers are also prohibited from carrying a loaded and uncased firearm in any of the 1000ft zones. There are other areas that need fixing. Of course the most desireable solution would be to have the SSC declare the school zone statute unconstitutional. Unfortunately the penalty of being charged with a felony if found guilty makes a court challenge unlikely and I suspect the attorney general will avoid issuing an opinion as if it was a plague. Our best bet is the legislature. We have to start pounding on them now. Most certainly this post is controversial. There are some members that will want all or nothing. Because of the child safety emotions surrounding this subject I fear if we demand all we will get nothing. I say that because I have already sent letters to my legislative representatives. They are both staunch defenders of the 2nd amendment and Article I section 25 but they both expressed the same concern . The concern that child safety not be compromised. |
|||||||||
|
32HR MAG Regular Member
|
I didn't know the BG's out there cared about child safety?I have children and would like changes made so those that are law abiding can carry.Then maybe the BG's would stay away from schools.They would have to go else where to recruit the new BG members.Gang members and other BG's, sure wouldn't want Mom and Dad around, if they are carrying,when they are looking for new recruits or buyers. |
|||||||||
|
308Panther Regular Member
|
eleuthera wrote: Enjoy! Thank You, Lammie, Some very good points. Points 1-4 sound reasonable. Last edited on Thu May 28th, 2009 09:55 am by 308Panther |
|||||||||
|
Sajuuk Regular Member 
|
roconnor14 wrote: These school zones are ridiculous. I can't step one foot off my front lawn. I've got the same problem. I'm completely surrounded, with an apparent school on my block that I didn't even know was a school. |
|||||||||
|
joelm Regular Member
|
Anybody make a school zone map yet for Waukesha County, as well as find a training manual for Waukesha Cty police regarding open carry after the AG's opinion? I did a brief search and found nothing, but can do more searching if no one already has. |
|||||||||
|
joelm Regular Member
|
Lammie wrote: 1. Make the penalty fit the crime...You could forcibly make the person attend an MPS school, particularly Bradley Tech. One less truancy there. Oh the horror.. |
|||||||||
|
Shotgun Founder's Club Member 
|
32HR MAG wrote: I didn't know the BG's out there cared about child safety?I have children and would like changes made so those that are law abiding can carry.Then maybe the BG's would stay away from schools.They would have to go else where to recruit the new BG members.Gang members and other BG's, sure wouldn't want Mom and Dad around, if they are carrying,when they are looking for new recruits or buyers.Let's face it, the school zone law wasn't really designed with child safety in mind. It was designed to mess with gun owners and to limit their ability to carry a gun. |
|||||||||
|
Lammie Campaign Veteran
|
Shotgun is correct. The federal school zone law was an act of the antis. They used the fear and panic of the moment to push for the law and it's ridiculous controls. They played the child safety issue to the hilt in order to lobby the law through congress and various state legislatures. The cries of child safety were but a smokescreen. However it is my opinion that the same smokescreen would be used to argue against recinding the school zone law. |
|||||||||
|
pvtschultz Campaign Veteran
|
I'll even accept the 1000' school zone statute if it was rewritten as a crime enhancer like the so called "hate" crime enhancer. That way, if you commit a gun crime within 1000' of a school, you'll get an enhancer on your sentence. That way it is still there, but not applicable to us. |
|||||||||
|
Spongebob Regular Member
|
The school-zone gun law is not legit. Firearm possession is only open to reasonable regulation. We are legal to carry in them as far as anyone who can read should be concerned. |
|||||||||
|
pvtschultz Campaign Veteran
|
Spongebob wrote: The school-zone gun law is not legit. Firearm possession is only open to reasonable regulation. Except that it is a felony if convicted. You won't have to worry about gun laws anymore then. |
|||||||||
|
FLR72 Regular Member 
|
eleuthera, Excellent and very important work! I am sure I speak for all of us when I say THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!! How hard was it to do this and would it be possible to do one for SE Wisconsin? I would be willing to lend a hand to do this but I may need a bit of help starting, otherwise I am very computer literate. Last edited on Sat May 30th, 2009 10:10 pm by FLR72 |
|||||||||
|
pvtschultz Campaign Veteran
|
FLR72 wrote: eleuthera, That was put together by Milwaukee PD and acquired via an open records request. The map uses a very liberal interpretation of "School Zone" to include the administrative buildings and athletic fields. Below I have included State Statutes 948.605 (GFSZ) and 948.61. SS 948.605 says on the grounds of a "school" which in 948.61 is the school proper and not athletic feilds and administration buildings. 948.605 Gun−free school zones. (1) DEFINITIONS. In this section:(a) “Encased” has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b). (ac) “Firearm” does not include any beebee or pellet−firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol. (am) “Motor vehicle” has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35). (b) “School” has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b). (c) “School zone” means any of the following: 1. In or on the grounds of a school. 2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school. (2) POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN SCHOOL ZONE. (a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is guilty of a Class I felony.(b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm: 1. On private property not part of school grounds; Snip. It also includes the the facilities and properties outlined in SS 948.61: (b) “School” means a public, parochial or private school which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or high school. (c) “School premises” means any school building, grounds, recreation area or athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated for school administration. |
|||||||||
|
GreenCountyPete Regular Member
|
I am a father of 3 school age children , and i would like to see the thousand foot or just less than 1/5th of a mile restriction removed i would also like to see the Isreali model implimented having trusted and trained staff and adminitration carry concealed as well as implimenting trusted and trained parents , grandparents and members of the comunity to patrol the grounds looking like casual walkers carring concealed side arms i was glad to see that many departments are now traning first responding officer confontation, of school and public place shooters , that can now be accounted for saving many lives. as it was so painfull to see footage from columbine and some of the other shootings where they rallied the troops before going inside in squads.leaving the shooters t finish thier work. |
|||||||||
|
GlockMeisterG21 Campaign Veteran 
|
GreenCountyPete wrote: I am a father of 3 school age children , and i would like to see the thousand foot or just less than 1/5th of a mile restriction removed i would also like to see the Isreali model implimented having trusted and trained staff and adminitration carry concealed as well as implimenting trusted and trained parents , grandparents and members of the comunity to patrol the grounds looking like casual walkers carring concealed side arms [APPLAUSE] My mother is a teacher and I would love to have her be able to carry on the job. I will always believe that "Gun free zones" when translated into whacko means "Come shoot me, I can't fight back" |
|||||||||
|
WI Patriot Regular Member 
|
I have edited the Official Milwaukee School Zone Map to include the locations of shooting homicides occurring in 2008, and up to March 2009. The database I used, http://data.jsonline.com/News/HomicideTracker/, is updated only to 3/25/09. In Summary, most of the homicides by shooting occurred within or near the 1000 foot school zone borders. Unfortunately, I am having trouble uploading the .pdf document. Once I get that uploaded, you will see the folly of the "gun free zones". Regards. Last edited on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 10:45 pm by WI Patriot |
|||||||||
|
GlockMeisterG21 Campaign Veteran
|
WI Patriot wrote: I have edited the Official Milwaukee School Zone Map to include the locations of shooting homicides occurring in 2008, and up to March 2009. The database I used, Sounds interesting, I look forward to seeing it! |
|||||||||
|
WI Patriot Regular Member
|
Attached is the school zone map with shooting homicide incidents identified. I will check the database periodically to look for updates, but I think this pretty much makes the case that "gun free zones" are merely gun free zones for law abiding citizens. Regards Attachment: MKE Homicides in School Zones.pdf (Downloaded 87 times) |
|||||||||
|
Brass Magnet Founder's Club Member 
|
Good job man! And thanks! I'll be sending this to my representatives. |
|||||||||
|
Mugenlude Campaign Veteran
|
Nice work WI Patriot... Now if we could get this into the hands of someone who could change this ordinance.  |
|||||||||
|
eleuthera Regular Member
|
awesome job on the map there. Do you have any hard statistics for what percentage occurred in school zones? |
|||||||||
|
Brass Magnet Founder's Club Member
|
eleuthera wrote: awesome job on the map there. Do you have any hard statistics for what percentage occurred in school zones? Uhm..... You could count the arrows on the map   On a serious note, it would be nice to keep compiling away on this thing and get the statistics included since the "Victim Disarmament Zone" law was put into effect. |
|||||||||
|
southside Campaign Veteran
|
don't feel bad roconner neither can i...................but can a person really be outside, on his property, within the 1000 ft rule.............. |
|||||||||
|
southside Campaign Veteran
|
i found the answer to my own question.....................you can carry on PRIVATE property within 1000ft.................i might consider having a oc picnic.............i've got st agnes a block away Last edited on Sun Jun 14th, 2009 05:39 pm by southside |
|||||||||
|
Flipper Campaign Veteran 
|
Out standing - Would it be possible to have running total of YTD shootings, the number that occurred in a school zone and that did not? Again, thanks for your work. To win we are going to need facts, not fiction. The Brady ghouls will provide the fiction as they always do while dancing in the blood of victims. |
|||||||||
|
smithman Regular Member
|
Flipper wrote: Out standing - Would it be possible to have running total of YTD shootings, the number that occurred in a school zone and that did not? All it takes is one person to watch jsonline.com every day and put a dot on a map approximately wherever a shooting is reported. By the end of the year one would have a clear picture of the school zone being a victim disarmament zone to show. I cannot watch it everyday, can someone else? Last edited on Sun Jun 14th, 2009 06:55 pm by smithman |
|||||||||
|
Flipper Campaign Veteran
|
smithman wrote: All it takes is one person to watch jsonline.com every day and put a dot on a map approximately wherever a shooting is reported. By the end of the year one would have a clear picture of the school zone being a victim disarmament zone to show. I cannot watch it everyday, can someone else? I don't see the Journal's "Homcide Tracker" database updated past March.  Wonder why? Maybe because it's a great resource for the pro 2nd Amendment and Section 25 advocates? |
|||||||||
|
WI Patriot Regular Member
|
I wouldn't read into why the homicide tracker data has not been updated. My guess is that the paper is short staffed and the database may be updated on a quarterly basis. Don't look for conspiracies here. I have not found any resources for recording all the shootings in Milwaukee and the surrounding areas. There are shootings daily in Milwaukee, and not all make the news. Seems the only shooting stories that make the news is when someone is actually shot. I feel that more research is needed before we use the map I edited to show the folly of "gun free zones". You can make some assumptions based upon the data provided, but I feel that we need more concrete facts before we push the school zone issue. Regards, |
|||||||||
|
Flipper Campaign Veteran
|
I see that it is up to date now. |
|||||||||
|
Flipper Campaign Veteran
|
I see that it is up to date now. http://data.jsonline.com/News/HomicideTracker/ Maybe the Journal Sentinel will provide an analysis of shootings that occur in an disarmament zone as a public service. (hint, hint) |
|||||||||
|
WI Patriot Regular Member
|
Map has been updated and is current. Attachment: MKE Homicides in School Zones.pdf (Downloaded 29 times) |
|||||||||
|
Flipper Campaign Veteran
|
Gun in school zone classified with the worst of worst crimes. From the State Senate version of the budget, page 12: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/lfb/2009-11Budget/2009_06_17WI%20Senate.pdf I don't know what this means, (I think it may have to do with early release) but it can't be good if you are arrested for having a firearm in a school disarmament zone. 1. SENTENCE MODIFICATIONS Modify provisions related to sentencing as follows: 2. MODIFICATIONS TO SENTENCE ADJUSTMENT AND EXTENDED SUPERVISION DISCHARGEExclude the following offenses from sentence adjustment (Class C through I felonies), risk reduction sentence, and extended supervision discharge provisions: a. Provisions regarding "offenses related to school safety;" b. Provisions regarding "government ethics" violations; c. Provisions regarding "offenses against elderly and vulnerable persons;" d. Felony murder (940.03); e. Kidnapping (940.31); f. Physical abuse of a child that causes great bodily harm to a child (948.03(2)(a)); g. Second-degree reckless homicide (940.06); h. Human trafficking (940.302); etc......... Define "offenses related to school safety" to include the following offenses: a. Possession of a gun in a gun-free school zone (948.605(2)(a)); and b. Dangerous weapons other than firearms on school premises (948.61(2)(b)). Last edited on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 09:01 pm by Flipper |
|||||||||
|
WI Patriot Regular Member
|
Map has been updated and is current. Attachment: MKE Homicides in School Zones.pdf (Downloaded 36 times) Last edited on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 03:38 pm by WI Patriot |
|||||||||
|
Flipper Campaign Veteran
|
Once again, excellent.....the basis for a news story the anti-2nd Admendment and anti-Article 1, Section 25 news media in Milwaukee and Madison press does not want to tell. |
|||||||||
|
hunter7jl Regular Member
|
Has anyone made a school zone map for the city of greenfield ? |
|||||||||
|
Glock34 Campaign Veteran 
|
my god this is insane. Half of Milwaukee is a School zone.... |
|||||||||
|
Lammie Campaign Veteran
|
Whether or not siewalks are private property has been discussed a number of times on this forum. The subject is important because one of the exclusions to the "school zone" law is that it is not unlawful to open carry a firearm within the 1000' perimeter if it is done on private property. I am of the opinion that sidewalks are private property under easement to a political subdivision for "public use". The abutting property owner retains fee title to the sidewalk. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a "cut and dried" definition in state statutes. Also unfortunately the penalty risk to test the opinion in court is too extreme for the majority of us. I have found a sidewalk policy that appears to support the private property theory. The policy is for the city of Portage Wisconsin. It follows: http://www.ci.portage.wi.us/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC=%7B5B9B55DF-83B9-46E5-8F3A-8F0FAF8A9A9D%7D&DE=%7B65A201F1-8701-45CD-91B7-297E7D5229BD%7D Note: The policy appears to pertain to both sidewalks and what are commonly known as boulevards. A hint to that is contained in the TREES section. What is extremely interesting is the information contained in COST APPORTIONMENT. It says that the cost of installing sideways is the responsibility of the abutting property owner. If the sidewalks were considered "public property" I would presume that the installation of the sidewalks would be done using public money. I think "key" to our cause is finding a precise definition on ownership of sidewalks. Not sure how that can be done but if it does support the theory of private property it sure would put a "wrinkle" in the school zone law and the Milwaukee Police Department school zone maps. |
|||||||||
|
J.Gleason Campaign Veteran
|
The Catholic School in my town has a private property sign on the fence. does the exclude them from the school zone restriction? <-----Sacrcasm. |
|||||||||
|
Lammie Campaign Veteran
|
948.61(1)(b) (b) "School" means a public, parochial or private school which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or high school. |
|||||||||
|
bnhcomputing Founder's Club Member
|
If I remember correctly, there were several of you who lived within these supposed "school" zones. Please contact me via PM if you live within a school zone. Thank you, bnhcomputing |
|||||||||
|
cleveland Regular Member 
|
I wonder if Gonzales (when at Menard's) was in a school zone, or it just didn't occur to them to charge him with a school zone violation.  |
|||||||||
|
bnhcomputing Founder's Club Member
|
cleveland wrote: I wonder if Gonzales (when at Menard's) was in a school zone, or it just didn't occur to them to charge him with a school zone violation. Wouldn't matter, the Menard's parking lot, like most businesses, is PRIVATE property. I carry regularly in a Festival Foods store, the entire store is within the School Zone restriction, but because they have PRIVATE (off street) parking, I'm legal. |
|||||||||
|
cleveland Regular Member
|
That's interesting, I never would have thought of it that way. Your right, the parking lot is the store's property. I wonder how that works with my sidewalk. I have to shovel it in the winter, that's got to count for something. I wonder where that falls legally? So that means you get your pistol out of the trunk and load up every time you walk in to every store? Seems like a lot of time being spent on putting on/taking off a pistol. |
|||||||||
|
protias Regular Member 
|
cleveland wrote: That's interesting, I never would have thought of it that way. Your right, the parking lot is the store's property. I wonder how that works with my sidewalk. I have to shovel it in the winter, that's got to count for something. I wonder where that falls legally? Sidewalks are considered public property despite you having to shovel snow off of them and that they are clear for pedestrians. |
|||||||||
|
AaronS Regular Member 
|
bnhcomputing wrote:
A friend of mine lives in a school zone. I just can't buy into it, and carry the moment I get out of my truck (55th and North Ave, (I bet you would carry illegal to, he has lost two local pizza guys in his area, one to a head shot, his car stopped after hitting a tree, no cash taken)). This choice I have to make is just a bad thing to force me into, but again, jail is better then dead... |
|||||||||