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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2009 03:00 pm |
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stephpd wrote: But if the objective is to pass shall issue laws it must remain a clean bill, without all the restrictions on where we can carry.
You should attack the current scheme piecemeal - salami slice it - start withy repealing the weird publich your name in the newspaper thing.
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ijusam
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2009 09:31 pm |
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Mike wrote: stephpd wrote: No I don't think the process is reasonable. . . . As to the NRA's arbitrary break up of the states, we don't deserve to be put in the same group as MD and NJ.
huh? Your post contradicts itself.
Do you think DE should be put in the "reasonable issue" column or not?
Mike, I think you are misunderstanding Steve,
he doesn't think the process is reasonable as:
1. it is expensive
2. it is lengthy
3. he may not like the publish in paper requirement
4. a newcommer to the state may trouble with the 5 references
but in the majority of the cases applications are approved so we should not be categorized with NJ or MD. we can only guess what the AG uses for criteria to "NOT Recommend".
the AG has only two stances:
1. No objection
2. Not recommend
IFAIK the judge will never sign off on a not recommend (unless successfully appealed)
and although the may at their whim not sign off at any time in practice they either will sign off immediately or if he refuses on appeal*
there has been some reports of the judge denying an uncontested (by AG) application, but when the applicant appealed the denial the judge signed... almost like he wanted to see if the applicant would just give up?
Now as to whether a conviction of Dover's ordnance would be enough to cause the AG to not recommend on a renewal (delaware has no provision to revoke a ccdw), the better part of valor forces us to believe he would on the grounds of "shows a tendency to disregard the law" or something like that.
Right now I would not like to be a shall issue state unless it was a clean Bill without any more restrictions than we currently have:
state parks and any detention area are the only ones that I can think of
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stephpd
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2009 11:04 pm |
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Mike wrote: stephpd wrote: But if the objective is to pass shall issue laws it must remain a clean bill, without all the restrictions on where we can carry.
You should attack the current scheme piecemeal - salami slice it - start withy repealing the weird publich your name in the newspaper thing. My problem with going after parts of the CCDW process is that it draws the attention of the anti gun nuts and their liberal friends in politics. (and we have many).
Yes the process is a pain, and the notice in the paper drew the ire of many that had to do this. But you only have to do this once, not for renewals. So those that have gone through this don't want to tinker with a process that is working. Yes it could be better, but the attention of salami slicing it would keep it up front and in the minds of Sarah Brady (who lives here) along with the rest of the anti's. Currently they are looking elsewhere and spend little time focusing on DE.
Like I said, shall issue was attempted but it was amended to death. I think that would still happen today. I for one don't like the idea of passing bad law just to make us on a different list, like shall issue. I always question the motives that interject there ideals onto others, whether the Brady's or the NRA.
I remember back when the push was on in sevral states for shall issue and all the different laws and restrictions that were added just to make it happen. Much of that is what I concider to be bad law. Making more gun free zones shouldn't be a negotiable item. Under current DE laws we don't have any of those, except for police stations and courthouses.
Now working to get Dovers city code removed and make DE a totally open carry state does seem to be a place to work and stand a chance of it working out well.
We are working on this with the New Castle County, seems they added a county park law that is in dierect violation of the state premtion law. This will happen, county council has talked to several members and they are working to do this without shining a spotlight on it. It takes time and some effort but these are fights we can win easily.
Dover is a little tougher, since it was law before the premption, but does seem to be a better place to put our time, money and effort. City and County council are the areas that seem that the normal person stands a chance of having a more direct effect. Much smaller voting block and less ties to big money.
Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2009 11:08 pm by stephpd
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stephpd
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2009 11:26 pm |
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junglebob wrote: I'm curious how difficult is getting a Delaware LTC for a resident. I noticed that you need to publish your name and address and have 5 people give personal references. They seem to be doing what they can to discourage you from even applying. I am sure there are those in the "right denied" state of Illinois that would like something similar if LTC legislation passed here. Is it usually only those rich and well connected that get one.
How long is the required training course. I have a Utah non-resident LTC that I got after an evening training course.
Sorry I missed this one. Class is a basic handgun safety course that can be completed in one day. Range time with 100 rounds down range is part of the law. Time and money are the biggest factors. Usually it will take 3-4 months from start to finish. And each step of the way is more money. Something around $400 for everything. Much of the time is waiting for the letter from the AG, 2-3 months, then another month for the court to approve.
It does seem like a long time but then some counties in PA have been known to take this long as well and they are shall issue and no safety course required.
The public notice is more a pain then anything. Back when manpower was cheaper they'd sent someone around to interview your neighbors to see if they thought you were a good person. Now they use the 5 references and public notice to make up for the lack of manpower. But the notice only runs one day and most folks seldom check that portion of the paper, if ever.
Many in DE have also acquired either a FL or UT license, since they have better reciprocity. The classes we took for DE will work for FL but nit for UT. A few members have arraigned with a UT certified instructor to come here and offer the class. The biggest difference being renewal fees and UT being cheaper over the long run.
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ijusam
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 1st, 2009 11:48 pm |
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one of the biggest differences between DE and NJ/MD is Delaware's almost unrestricted open carry (stateparks, dover, detention facilities) in delaware anyone with a clean record should not have a problem. of the two on our site that failed, the one pending stated he had some misdemeanor, and the other did not disclose although it was not criminal.
Unlike NJ or MD you do not have to know someone or have documented evidence that your life is in danger
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