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OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Arizona > Open Carry for a Non-Resident Alien
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| OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Arizona > Open Carry for a Non-Resident Alien
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spartans Regular Member
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I am a Canadian citizen who will be visiting your wonderful State this August. I am bringing my Glock 17 (have filled out the required paper work and permits to legally bring gun into the States) my question is: can a non-resident Alien OPEN CARRY in AZ? if yes, how so? what permits / forms do I need etc? also, can anyone tell me what can be legally hunted in Aug with a pistol (9mm) Thank you |
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TOF Regular Member 
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Arizona Law regarding weapons is listed at the following link http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13 skip down to chapter 31 Copied from Definitions: 7. "Prohibited possessor" means any person: (a) Who has been found to constitute a danger to himself or to others pursuant to court order under section 36-540, and whose court ordered treatment has not been terminated by court order. (b) Who has been convicted within or without this state of a felony or who has been adjudicated delinquent for a felony and whose civil right to possess or carry a gun or firearm has not been restored. (c) Who is at the time of possession serving a term of imprisonment in any correctional or detention facility. (d) Who is at the time of possession serving a term of probation pursuant to a conviction for a domestic violence offense as defined in section 13-3601 or a felony offense, parole, community supervision, work furlough, home arrest or release on any other basis or who is serving a term of probation or parole pursuant to the interstate compact under title 31, chapter 3, article 4. (e) Who is an undocumented alien or a nonimmigrant alien traveling with or without documentation in this state for business or pleasure or who is studying in this state and who maintains a foreign residence abroad. This subdivision does not apply to: (i) Nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid hunting license or permit that is lawfully issued by a state in the United States. (ii) Nonimmigrant aliens who enter the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show that is sponsored by a national, state or local firearms trade organization devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms. (iii) Certain diplomats. (iv) Officials of foreign governments or distinguished foreign visitors who are designated by the United States department of state. (v) Persons who have received a waiver from the United States attorney general. You can hunt predators such as Coyotes year round. Big game available then would be Lion. Aditional hunt info available here: http://www.gf.state.az.us/ Enjoy your stay. |
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davesnothere Regular Member
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TOF wrote: (e) Who is an undocumented alien or a nonimmigrant alien traveling with or without documentation in this state for business or pleasure or who is studying in this state and who maintains a foreign residence abroad. This subdivision does not apply to:I think this part in particular outlines what you'll need. Section (e), subsection (i) states that you'll need a permit. I'd imagine that you'll need to get this from DPS, or possibly through a County Sheriff's office. |
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JesseL Regular Member 
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davesnothere wrote: TOF wrote:(e) Who is an undocumented alien or a nonimmigrant alien traveling with or without documentation in this state for business or pleasure or who is studying in this state and who maintains a foreign residence abroad. This subdivision does not apply to:I think this part in particular outlines what you'll need. Wouldn't it be simpler just to pick up a hunting license at any Wal-Mart, sporting goods store, or gun store? |
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davesnothere Regular Member
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JesseL wrote: davesnothere wrote:I'm not a hunter (yet), and I haven't read everything that DPS and AZGFD have to say on the matter, but I'd bet that a hunting permit doesn't get you off the hook as a non-resident alien OC'ing in an urban area.TOF wrote:(e) Who is an undocumented alien or a nonimmigrant alien traveling with or without documentation in this state for business or pleasure or who is studying in this state and who maintains a foreign residence abroad. This subdivision does not apply to:I think this part in particular outlines what you'll need. |
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JesseL Regular Member
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davesnothere wrote: I'm not a hunter (yet), and I haven't read everything that DPS and AZGFD have to say on the matter, but I'd bet that a hunting permit doesn't get you off the hook as a non-resident alien OC'ing in an urban area. The law says it does. That's not to say that a police officer who's already asked for ID will see it that way right off... |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member 
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Hunting anything with a 9mm handgun is a stupid idea to begin with. Coyotes? You'll never get near 'em... unless you plan to shoot from your car window.... which is a felony. Know the immediate difference between a coyote and a gray wolf? The wolf is an endangered species. Lion? Yeh right... This desert will 'eat you'. Stay out of it. Last thing we need here is Canadian wanderin' around shootin' at everything that moves for the helluvit. Point of fact... you are a foreigner... an alien. You cannot legally go among us armed. We have enough of that from the south already. A hunting license does not extend to wandering OC altho nobody will stop you. You are NOT hunting. You are merely armed. As a non-resident alien... you are illegally armed. |
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davesnothere Regular Member
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Sonora Rebel wrote: A hunting license does not extend to wandering OC altho nobody will stop you. You are NOT hunting. You are merely armed. As a non-resident alien... you are illegally armed.As I suggested before, you should get the right permits through DPS if you're considering carry. I'm not all that against foreign citizens carrying, as long as they comply with the appropriate laws to do so. |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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Foreigners carrying? I'm against it... damned right I'm against it. We are a sovereign nation. If Canadians are OK... then Mexicans, Guatamalans, El Salvadorans, Haitians 'n who knows what else is OK. No... it ain't OK. It's our RIGHT... not theirs. Hunting and target competitions are one thing... but walkin' around heeled is something else again. We still have states where our own citizens can't do that. No... this goes beyond 'being nice'... it's being stupid. |
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r6-rider Regular Member
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wait a minute... canadians can own firearms?!?!?! |
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GWbiker Regular Member 
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r6-rider wrote: wait a minute... canadians can own firearms?!?!?! Yeah, I saw that.....thought it was a typo......  |
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ccwinstructor Centurion Member
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Foreigners carrying? I'm against it... damned right I'm against it. We are a sovereign nation. If Canadians are OK... then Mexicans, Guatamalans, El Salvadorans, Haitians 'n who knows what else is OK. No... it ain't OK. It's our RIGHT... not theirs. Hunting and target competitions are one thing... but walkin' around heeled is something else again. We still have states where our own citizens can't do that. No... this goes beyond 'being nice'... it's being stupid. Wouldn't you want to be able to carry in those other countries? I had a permit while I was in Panama. I think we should work to get reciprocity with other countries to be able to carry there. Canada will issue permits for Americans to possess (not carry) firearms in Canada. DPS will *not* issue a concealed carry permit for non-immigrant aliens. They used to, before 9/11, but afterword they refused to do so. I am 99% sure that it was because of pressure from the Department of Homeland Security. About the same time, Minnesota law was changed to require citizenship or a green card to obtain a permit. I believe that a hunting license is all you would need to open carry, and that is what I advise my friends. |
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ccwinstructor Centurion Member
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spartans wrote: I am a Canadian citizen who will be visiting your wonderful State this August. Welcome to Arizona! I have met many Canadians who spend the winter here, and they are nice people. I hope you enjoy your trip. If you will be coming to Yuma, let me know and I will PM you with a phone number so I can answer any questions while you are there. I believe a hunting license is all that you will need to be able to open carry in Arizona. If you can legally bring the firearm to Arizona, you can probably open carry here. Remember, America operates on the principle that "if it is not forbidden, it is allowed", while it seems that much of the world operates on the principle "if it is not allowed, it is forbidden". Unfortunately, we seem to be moving in that direction. |
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TOF Regular Member
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Many years ago I drove the Alcan Highway to get to Alaska. The Canadians were considerate enough to allow me to place my loaded revolver in a plastic bag which they subsequently sealed. Although it was sealed it was quite functional and ready if needed. They also allowed my long guns to travel unencumbered without seals. Were I to make a similar trip today I would certainly research methods by which I could carry protection, sealed or not. If the rumor mill is correct I would not be able to but that would not stop me from checking. If spartans wishes to do the same on his visit to the US I think we should help in his info search. If he came on the forum and said he was sneaking across the US-Canadian line with a bunch of guns and needed false papers so he could keep them I would think otherwise. Conditions in the USA are certainly no less dangerous for our Northern Neighbors than for us, perhaps more dangerous if a BG see’s their Canadian license plate. I am just as much against the “Illegal Alien” situation on our southern border as any of you. That doesn’t mean I can’t be a good neighbor to those visiting while fully complying with our laws. PS: A ruger single six .22 Mag makes a great Coyote gun if you know how to get the job done. Last edited on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 09:17 pm by TOF |
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ccwinstructor Centurion Member
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I do not have my Arizona Hunting regulations with me, but I believe you can find them on line. I believe you can use a centerfire handgun to hunt all small game in Arizona. Either cottontail or Jack rabbits are legal to hunt all year round. The law does not say that you *must* be hunting to have the firearm. It merely says you need a hunting license to posess the firearm. In Arizona, if you can legally possess the firearm, you can legally open carry it (except on school grounds or in a few municipal parks). |
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davesnothere Regular Member
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Foreigners carrying? I'm against it... damned right I'm against it. We are a sovereign nation. If Canadians are OK... then Mexicans, Guatamalans, El Salvadorans, Haitians 'n who knows what else is OK. No... it ain't OK. It's our RIGHT... not theirs. Hunting and target competitions are one thing... but walkin' around heeled is something else again. We still have states where our own citizens can't do that. No... this goes beyond 'being nice'... it's being stupid. We are a sovereign nation, yes. No question about that. And still, I don't mind non-resident aliens carrying, so long as they are in the country legally, and have the appropriate permits. Long term I hope that every State will adopt Vermont rules and that the Federal Government will move closer to the original meaning of the 2A, so with that said, no, non-resident aliens shouldn't have the same 2A rights that the rest of us do, nor do I think that they should. Permits should be a requirement, both for open and concealed carry. It is unreasonable to think we should throw away the basic right to self-defense with respect to non-resident aliens who are here legally. Sonora Rebel, I have read some of your other posts, and I know some of the things that you've had to deal with personally from your accounts, particularly with respect to illegal aliens, so I can see where you might be coming from, but I believe you are overlooking the bigger picture. A non-resident alien from any country, who is here legally, and is willing to obtain the appropriate permits, should be allowed to carry. Why not? They may be here trying to become American citizens. Should we prevent them from enjoying this basic freedom until they have sworn an oath? I don't see why that should be a preventative step. If they break the law, then they are going to do it whether we allow them to carry open or not. Illegal aliens who wish to be "heeled" won't respect the need for a permit to carry openly for two reasons: a) they are already here illegally so breaking one more law won't really matter, and b) as an illegal they don't have the proper documentation to get a non-resident alien permit anyway. The law-abiding shouldn't have unnecessary restrictions placed on them in order to defend themselves and their property. I believe that is true whether they are American, Zimbabwean, Russian, or Martian. Last edited on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 10:49 pm by davesnothere |
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TOF Regular Member
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ccwinstructor wrote: I do not have my Arizona Hunting regulations with me, but I believe you can find them on line. The regs are readily available from the Arizona Game And Fish Dept. : http://www.gf.state.az.us/ Any centerfire handgun is legal for small and large game except for Buffalo which requires .41 Magnum or greater. |
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ccwinstructor Centurion Member
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Thank you for posting the link. |
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marshaul Activist Member 
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Sonora Rebel wrote:Foreigners carrying? I'm against it... damned right I'm against it. We are a sovereign nation. If Canadians are OK... then Mexicans, Guatamalans, El Salvadorans, Haitians 'n who knows what else is OK. No... it ain't OK. It's our RIGHT... not theirs. Hunting and target competitions are one thing... but walkin' around heeled is something else again. We still have states where our own citizens can't do that. No... this goes beyond 'being nice'... it's being stupid. The human right to self-defense precedes our national sovereignty. |
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marshaul Activist Member
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Sonora Rebel wrote:A hunting license does not extend to wandering OC altho nobody will stop you. You are NOT hunting. You are merely armed. As a non-resident alien... you are illegally armed. That's not what the law says. The law doesn't say "is hunting", it says "has a hunting license". Check your prejudice at the door. Any reasonable interpretation of law is uncolored by such. |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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Sorry... I'm not ready to open the gate, haul down the flag and let anybody from elsewhere come waltzin' in doin' whatever the hell they feel like. At the border crossing into Nogales, Mexico... there's a big sign: "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". Years ago... (1969) I startled a Canadian Border dude when he asked if I had any firearms. "Yeah... right here. A Winchester .30-30." I had to unload it and put it in the trunk. Today... I don't think I could cross into BC (or anywhere in Canada) with a firearm. If he can't carry in Canada... let him work to fix that in his own country. Point is... this guy wants to carry for the novelty of it. Not only that... he feels compelled to 'kill' something... If he can't find a coyote... it'll be an eagle, hawk, falcon, vulture... or whatever else he can find to shoot at. I know the type. 'Can't just enjoy the wild things w/o wantin' to kill somethin'. This isn't about self defense... it's a novelty. Well... he'll find out soon enough what this desert is about in August. Maybe have a run-in with a momma Javelina or one of 5 kinds of rattler. That is... if the cholla 'n 'pear don't tear his legs up first. We have a couple people disappear in this desert every year. 'Never fails. Then... there's the Border Patrol checkpoints. I don't think a huntin' license will float if he has a hang-up with them while open carrying. He's not here on an immigrant visa... he's a FOREIGN TOURIST. The AZ Constitution extends to citizens and 'resident' aliens... not TOURISTS. If you are not engaged in 'hunting'... then you are carrying illegally. There's no way anybody could justify carrying into a McDonalds in Phoenix... or Wickenburg... or Tucson and claim they were 'hunting'. If he gets into a situation and actually has to shoot somebody... He's screwed! Then... there's the Indian nations to consider. As for you marshaul... STFU! You can't even carry loaded in SF... and doubtful you OC at all in the city. A 'sanctuary' city at that. NOTHING preceeds our national sovereignty. Not that you've ever done anything (or would) to defend it. |
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GWbiker Regular Member
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Sorry... I'm not ready to open the gate, haul down the flag and let anybody from elsewhere come waltzin' in doin' whatever the hell they feel like. At the border crossing into Nogales, Mexico... there's a big sign: "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". Years ago... (1969) I startled a Canadian Border dude when he asked if I had any firearms. "Yeah... right here. A Winchester .30-30." I had to unload it and put it in the trunk. Today... I don't think I could cross into BC (or anywhere in Canada) with a firearm. If he can't carry in Canada... let him work to fix that in his own country. +100000000000000. I seems Arizona OC gun owners receive advice each week from well meaning out of state posters who should first deal with their own f*cked up gun carry laws, before they lecture us. |
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ccwinstructor Centurion Member
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Sonora Rebel wrote: Sorry... I'm not ready to open the gate, haul down the flag and let anybody from elsewhere come waltzin' in doin' whatever the hell they feel like. At the border crossing into Nogales, Mexico... there's a big sign: "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". Years ago... (1969) I startled a Canadian Border dude when he asked if I had any firearms. "Yeah... right here. A Winchester .30-30." I had to unload it and put it in the trunk. Today... I don't think I could cross into BC (or anywhere in Canada) with a firearm. If he can't carry in Canada... let him work to fix that in his own country. So.. Why don't you want him to be able to carry openly in Arizona? I did not find a single reason in the above paragraph
Why shouldn't he be able to open carry again? Because he is interested in what is legal to hunt with a pistol? He has only asked what was legal.
Why would he have a problem? It is legal. He's not here on an immigrant visa... he's a FOREIGN TOURIST. The AZ Constitution extends to citizens and 'resident' aliens... not TOURISTS. I believe you are mistaken. If you are not engaged in 'hunting'... then you are carrying illegally. Why do you say so? The law says if he has a hunting license he can legally possess firearms. There's no way anybody could justify carrying into a McDonalds in Phoenix... or Wickenburg... or Tucson and claim they were 'hunting'. If he gets into a situation and actually has to shoot somebody... He's screwed! Then... there's the Indian nations to consider. Indian nation considerations apply to anyone who is not a member of the tribe.
Marshaul, thanks for your input. This forum is for everyone to contribute. |
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marshaul Activist Member
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Being that my other address is in Virginia, where I can OC while drinking in bars, people should take my opinion with the grain of salt that it's worth, but not assert that I "am lecturing them when I need to deal with my own state's @#$%ed up laws". It's not like my opinion on OC is irrelevant. It's also just an opinion, which I will not "STFU" with. As for California, we're working on it. Last edited on Wed Jun 24th, 2009 10:14 pm by marshaul |
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crisisweasel Regular Member 
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marshaul wrote:
+++ - marshaul, unsurprisingly, gets it right. A right isn't a right if it's really just a privilege conferred by a piece of paper to people fortunate enough to be born or reside on a plot of land. Whether you live in Canada, Britain, Ghana, Indonesia, Iran, or anywhere else, human beings, by simple virtue of being human beings, have a right to own and carry weapons for the purpose of self defense, and to speak their mind freely - whether or not their governments choose to recognize that right or not, and as we all know, many don't. The right doesn't vanish in those countries - it is simply infringed or violated - illicitly and immorally - by statist governments. The issue of killing animals is to me a separate issue from whether or not one should be allowed to carry a gun for self defense. As for personal defense, a human life doesn't become worth less because it's not an American one. Rights aren't worth anything, and we have nothing on which to stand, if we reduce them to Constitutionally-granted privileges which only locals can enjoy. I have always opposed this idea of rights because it is the basis on which those rights are done away with by majoritarian votes, or in the name of public safety, or some "overriding" concern. In my book, nothing overrides rights, not even national sovereignty. Nothing can, or you weaken them to the point where you legitimize circumstances in which they *can* be taken away. A right applies universally to all human beings, or it isn't a right at all. I am completely cool with foreigners peaceably and responsibly carrying weapons in the United States. Don't care if they are from Central America if they're here with peaceable intent. I don't care if they're refugees from Afghanistan - so long as they are here with peaceful intent, with the intention not to violate the rights of others. That is the only standard to which anyone should be held. What I'm not in agreement with is people carrying weapons irresponsibly, aggressively, or for criminal intent, but again, this sentiment applies equally to fellow Arizonans as it does anyone else. A Canadian has a right to carry a gun here by virtue of having been born into our species. His Canadian nationality could not possibly be less relevant to the fact that he has a right by virtue of being a human being. It is the fact that we are "endowed by our creator (not nationality) with certain inalienable rights" that makes this so. I firmly believe this, and will not budge on this issue. Period. As for the legality of that, our own government infringes/violates the right to self defense through the laws that do exist. I'd simply caution anyone coming here to stay within the law if they value their liberty. |
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Crossfire Jedi Regular Member 
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So the law states he is welcome to come hunt...?I never knew that was the case, that needs to change! I do welcome toursist into the country, I do welcome people that come in thru the "front door" to become citizens as well. I think that Marshal was wrong in his statment to Sonora about keep the prejudice at the door when he was making valid points, however, it appears this hasn't been the first time he has caused a stink in the Arizona forums to get a rise out of people. I have no problem with the human right to self defense, that being said..I do have a problem with tourists coming into our country with guns. I know that seems to be a double standard, but that's how I feel. This post was very odd as it started out with a foreigner using a Glock 9mm to "hunt"..I never heard of such a thing..which throws a flag up on my end, and then he wants to OC...and I believe Sonora was trying to point out this to everyone as well. I am looking forward now to being bashed by those from out of state  in the Arizona forums |
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crisisweasel Regular Member
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Crossfire Jedi wrote: So the law states he is welcome to come hunt...?I never knew that was the case, that needs to change! Hunting with a 9mm is a separate issue. But let's say someone comes come here from another country and wants to carry a gun for self-defense...by what basis should they not be allowed to do so? |
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TOF Regular Member
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I agree the right to self protection is a universal right so will only address the hunting portion this cycle. United States of America citizens go to Canada by the thousands every year to hunt every thing from Ptarmigan to Moose. We go all over the world to hunt. There is no good reason to not allow law abiding Canadians, Mexicans or whatever, hunting priveleges in our country and state. Whatever your individual opinion might be, the State Game and Fish Regulations allow 9MM handguns for the taking of all small and big game except Buffalo. If you don't believe it check the G&F link posted earlier. I prefer a bit more for Elk but that has nothing to do with the law. Some of you may not like hunting at all. That is tough cause we are going to continue doing so and as far as I am concerned the OP is welcome to join in as long as he has obtained all requisite clearances and licenses. Last edited on Fri Jun 26th, 2009 09:37 pm by TOF |
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davesnothere Regular Member
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crisisweasel wrote:...let's say someone comes come here from another country and wants to carry a gun for self-defense...by what basis should they not be allowed to do so?+1 |
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marshaul Activist Member
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The law is the law. If it is legal for a resident to hunt coyotes with a 9mm, then why not tourists? If there is a problem, it is not tourists, but hunting coyotes with 9mm. Change the law then. Or, perhaps there is no problem? I don't post the things I do to "get a rise" out of people. I post because what I post needs to be said (in my opinion). If I chastise Sonora its because he is constantly putting his fears before liberty, and then accusing half the country of being "pantywaist urbanites". Edit: Excellent posts by crisisweasel. +1 Last edited on Fri Jun 26th, 2009 09:54 pm by marshaul |
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GWbiker Regular Member
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marshaul wrote: The law is the law. If it is legal for a resident to hunt coyotes with a 9mm, then why not tourists? Well, the law is the law in Arizona, unlike the Republic of Kalynfornia where the Boxers and the Feinsteines determine the law. Part of the gun laws problem in your state. If it is legal for a resident to hunt coyotes with a 9mm, then why not tourists? Yes, I like that idea. Arizona residents should start hunting Kalynforina tourists.....  |
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Crossfire Jedi Regular Member
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I know where you guys are coming from and I am not saying you are wrong by any means. This is all news to me, and my straight feelings on a tourist OC'n with a Glock 9mm to "hunt" I provided. My feelings regarding law's around firearms have changed more than I can count, thanks to this site and arizonadefensegroup as you learn quite a bit, even when it can get a bit heated and hostile. I won't pretend to know it all, because I definately do not. |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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They are non-resident aliens! Title 18 USC. The hunting license scam has been used by non-res to purchase guns and ammo... even tho they do not hunt. However... wandering around openly armed (not actively engaged in hunting) is misrepresentation. In AZ... you could prob'ly get away with it. 'Still don't make it right. No more than I could obtain a Canadian hunting license and wander around downtown Mooseputz while armed with an AK. I care less what the law sez... you ain't gonna kill nothin' in this desert with a Glock 9 unless it commits suicide. No range... and no accuracy at any 'hunting' range. It's not a 'hunting' arm. This Canuck will wilt after 15 minutes in August anyway. He's not 'huntin' anything... just wants to walk around with a gun on his hip. He posted the same stuff in the Utah forums I think it was. How do we know he's a 'native' Canuck? For all we know he's naturalized... and a jihadi. My red flags went up on this one... Huntin' 'coyotes'? He's never seen this desert... or the Rim... That's OK tho? Just turn 'em loose? Some of you are sooo naive. We let visa holders get pilot licenses in Arizona too... Remember how that turned out? As a non-resident/ non-citizen... you want self defense? Hire a bodyguard. Last edited on Fri Jun 26th, 2009 10:20 pm by Sonora Rebel |
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marshaul Activist Member
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I don't see how it's misrepresentation. The law is quite clear. Nonresident aliens may be armed with a hunting license. If it was intended to be "while hunting", it would say so. Perhaps the legislator's intent was to balance interests? Allowing nonresidents to arm themselves if they actually care to find out legally how, but still not giving all of them carte blanche to be armed, out of recognition of Sonora Rebel's fear of illegals? |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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Fear's got nothin' to do with it jizjaw. It's about reserving certain Rights for American citizens in THIS State. (A Title 10 thing) You Kommiefornians have already screwed your own state up so bad with illegals it's unfixable. I am a Nationalist... and, unlike you marshaul... I earned it. |
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marshaul Activist Member
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Sonora Rebel wrote:Fear's got nothin' to do with it jizjaw. It's about reserving certain Rights for American citizens in THIS State. (A Title 10 thing) You Kommiefornians have already screwed your own state up so bad with illegals it's unfixable. So, how does it infringe on your right to self-defense to respect that same right when belonging to another person? I understand actual thought requires more effort than insults, but try to stay on-track. Last edited on Fri Jun 26th, 2009 11:30 pm by marshaul |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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We citizens have certain rights that are not immediely conferred to non-citizens just for entering the country. The Right to bear arms in defense of oneself and the state is NOT one of those. 'Hunting' is not self defense. Hunting is sport.  It's not 'other persons. That's what your liberal mind gloms on... It's an Alien Foreign National. A 'Subject' of Canada who does not have that Right. Not even in Canada.  Don't like it... go to Canada and fix it! You've done so much to fix California... it should be a snap!  Try reading ALL of the words... not just the little ones.  |
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GWbiker Regular Member
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An example how they **FIXED** California guns laws: When the LA Riots kicked off in April '92, LA and surrounding area residents concerned for their safety flocked to gun stores to purchase weapons for home n' family safety. Residents could purchase a gun but then faced a 10 day waiting period until gun was in hand. Thousands of those residents were shocked to find there was a 10 day wait, although they had sat on their asses when the Boxers and the Finesteins and the other loonies told them the waiting period was an excellent means to fight crime. No wonder they call Kalynfornya the "Land of Fruits n' Nuts". |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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That bill was marketed under the guise of a 'Cooling Off Period'... as tho all firearms are purchased simply to 'do something evil'. This is the sort of projection that the libs create all over. I just LOVE it when the Kommiefonians start telling Arizonans how to manage our own liberties. They can't even manage their own. I just had a visual... Boxer and Feinstien 'In Heat'  Last edited on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 01:47 am by Sonora Rebel |
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marshaul Activist Member
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So, basically, because you can't come up with a decent answer for my question, you talk about California some more? I thought this was the Arizona subforum... For the last time, I was raised in Virginia. Even if that weren't so, my current state of residence is wholly irrelevant. Face it, your "conservative" mind just "gloms" on "illegal alien", and all of a sudden you conveniently forget that rights are derived from human nature rather than the Constitution (which merely enumerates a few of them as explicitly protected), and when confronted with this fact you have no response but to sputter illogical irrelevancies about California. Even in Arizona, the Fourth amendment applies to all persons, not just citizens. Why not the Second? I fail to understand what actually valid reason there is for denying the right to self-defense for any peaceable human being. So far, you've presented noting more than A: you don't like them, and B: the Bill of Rights doesn't protect illegals (which it, in fact, does, at least in parts). At best, you still have yet to show why the 4th Amendment applies to everyone but only citizens have the right to self-defense. Of course, this is an impossible argument, for no amount of legal or "intellectual" wrangling will change the fundamental basis of rights: that they are not distributed by government, but are derived from the nature of what human beings are. |
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GWbiker Regular Member
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marshaul wrote: So, basically, because you can't come up with a decent answer for my question, you talk about California some more? I thought this was the Arizona subforum... The right to self defense for any peaceable human being. Right.....Well put, now Goggle the California Gun Control Act of 1923, when Sacramento with the help of the state KKK, passed CCW license legislation (may issue) and a two day waiting period aimed at controlling Chinese and Latino citizens. I'll say it again, fix California's problems first, then come lecture us! |
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marshaul Activist Member
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I'm not lecturing you. I have no need of lecturing you; the law in Arizona permits the OP to carry guns (with a hunting permit), which is what I'm defending in the first place against attacks from supposedly "pro-gun" Arizonians. And California is irrelevant. You're not even being snarky, you're just demonstrating a profound inability to use reason. Last edited on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 02:54 am by marshaul |
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GWbiker Regular Member
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marshaul wrote: I'm not lecturing you. I have no need of lecturing you; the law in Arizona permits the OP to carry guns (with a hunting permit), which is what I'm defending in the first place against attacks from supposedly "pro-gun" Arizonians. Cute, but you're still pissing in the wind. |
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Michigander Regular Member 
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One of the most offensive things I've ever seen is a canadian border guard coming on a school bus crossing the border for a field trip with a garbage bag, asking for "self defense products" It's a natural right, and one that I feel every good person around the world is entitled to. I don't pretend to have all the answers about who should be allowed to do what when, but I do know I have no problems with a good person arming himself where he pleases. |
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spartans Regular Member
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Wow, quite a discussion going.. I guess I should ‘clear a few things up’ so-to-speak. Who am I?? Without saying too much – I am a 28 year old High School teacher who is also an active duty reservist in the Canadian Military. I recently completed a 8 month tour in Afghanistan – quite the place. Reason for visiting US? My girlfriend and I are going on a road trip. Crossing at Detroit and driving to Utah (reason I posted on their site about the same issues), the to Nevada, Arizona, and back up through Colorado before making our way home. Been to Arizona once, LOVED IT. I would like to move there one day possibly retirement. Something about the desert I guess (and no snow – for the most part!) Reason for bringing firearms to States? A few really. One, to hunt. Why a pistol? Here in Canada, we are not allowed to hunt with a pistol – thus I would love to opportunity to try this as it is not something I am able to do at home. Why a 9mm? Unfortunately, a 9mm Glock 17 is the only pistol I currently own. I may not be the best choice for hunting, but it is all I have. Why am I not picky as to what to hunt? Again, as we are not allowed to hunt with a pistol here, anything I can legally hunt with a 9mm (again, my only pistol) is fine. It is more the for the experience than actually getting anything. I am an avid hunter here in Canada. Hunt with long guns all the time. No sense in hunting with a long gun in the States – I can do that at home. This is about taking advantage of a great opportunity which is – thankfully – afforded to me – legally. Yes, it is sad, I must visit another country to do this, but do that mean I should not take advantage of the opportunity? Why Open Carry? Simple. Security. Again, I will be traveling with my girlfriend. Her well being is my #1 concern. This may sound odd, but one thing I really remember while being in Afghanistan was this one night while on patrol. I was on the outskirts of some town or other, we had word that the Taliban had infiltrated the area recently. While I was walking in the dark, not knowing what was around the next corner – I can recall the feeling I had with vivid clarity, I was scared – it was the unknown. But then I felt my C7 (Standard issue rifle) and this calm came over me. The fact I knew that if and when something happened – I had full confidence in myself, and my training, that I could defend myself and that of the men with me. There is no greater right that the right to defend yourself. Unfortunately, my government does not understand this. Thankfully for you – yours does. Hope this answers some of your questions. I can understand why some may be upset with armed citizens coming to your country. But, if rest assured. I am doing so legally. |
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TOF Regular Member
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Come on over spartans. If you peruse the AZ G&F site posted earlier you will find all about our seasons. I know there is a rabbit out there just waiting for your 9MM. We are a country full of opinions if nothing else. Some for some against some good some bad. Just like most other places. PS: Thank you for your service in our joint venture. |
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Michigander Regular Member
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If you're coming through the Detroit/Windsor route, it will definitely be possible to arrange a Detroit area OC'er meeting (as in coffee, a picnic, lunch, etc.) for you if you want to. It would just have to be timed right. |
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Crossfire Jedi Regular Member
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I appreciate you going into more detail, it did help me to understand..the first post had me going. Also, being prior military myself...I want to thank you for your service. I understand that you want to protect your girlfriend and yourself, and as stated before I welcome tourists and those who come thru the 'front door' to become citizens as well. That being said, I personally am not comfortable with this law as it does look like a big loophole for those that could cause harm to American citizens by claiming they just want to hunt. (I am not saying that is your intent). Also, this law and everything associated with it is new to me...I did not know it even existed until today. It's a tough one for sure. I agree you have the right to defending yourself and others, without any doubt. Then 9/11 happened, and the investigation into everything leading up to it showed us loop holes in our system. I guess the question would be how can you defend yourself and others in another country without carrying a firearm? If I go to Canada, can I carry? |
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marshaul Activist Member
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Since when is a terrorist going to look for hunting license loopholes? The "loophole" of 9/11 was one created by government disarming of airplane passengers, not one unfilled by some or other lack of government "security". Edit: Also, the law doesn't allow them suitcase nukes. It allows them handguns, and rifles. Not much of a "loophole" by terrorist standards. Last edited on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 07:03 am by marshaul |
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crisisweasel Regular Member
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marshaul wrote: Since when is a terrorist going to look for hunting license loopholes? Oh man, if I ever start a band, I am going to steal that: "Canucks with Suitcase Nukes". We could be the next Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet. |
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spartans Regular Member
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Crossfire Jedi wrote: If I go to Canada, can I carry? Unfortunetely, no you cannot Open Carry. As I mentioned, A Canadian citizen cannot even open carry. A handgun (which our government has said is a 'restricted' firearm) must be kept in a locked case, with a trigger lock on it - and unloaded, in a safe (or locked room, which cannot be easily broken into). to to transport the pistol, it must be in a locked case, with a trigger lock on it. you can only transport it to and from a approved range. you cannot drive around with a 'restricted' gun in your car just going from A to B. you must be travelling from your residence to an approved gun range. My government has been stripping its citizens of their rights for the last 100 years. today 'big black scary guns' and of course handguns, are the sole cause of ALL crime on this planet - from drugs, to B & E , to tax evasion. Fortunately, there are still a few of us that understand that this is complete BS. and are fighting to change it - but it is an uphill battle to say the least |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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crisisweasel wrote: Oh man, if I ever start a band, I am going to steal that: "Canucks with Suitcase Nukes". We could be the next Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet. Here ya go: (Tune of Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap AC/DC) Canucks with Nukes Who’s that a’lookin’ like an Eskimo What’s that there in his hand Can’t be too careful… thought you ought’a know They’re comin’ in our land - OW! Canucks with nukes On our streets Canucks with nukes Polar creeps Canucks with nukes On our streets Canucks with nukes And they're on our streets Canucks with nukes And they're on our streets I take my pick-up down to Wally World To buy some Chinese junk… Then some Canadian parks next to me He’s got a bomb in his trunk No place to go No place to hide I see ‘em everywhere I get in line down at the Mickey D’s They follow me down there… Nooo! Canucks with nukes On our streets Canucks with nukes Polar creeps Canucks with nukes And they're on our streets Canucks with nukes And they're on our streets I saw a Mountie walkin’ ‘round the mall A suitcase nuke in hand I swear to God they’re gonna kill us all You gotta understand OW! When I go home I’m not alone They’re hidin’ in my garage I hear ‘em whisperin’ out there in French Plotting their espionage OH! Canucks with nukes On our streets Canucks with nukes Polar creeps Canucks with nukes And they're on our streets Canucks with nukes And they're on our streets OW! I put a call in to the FBI 'Told of the plan underway Tehy told me 'go 'n get a tinfoil hat 'Then to have a Nice Day... Eh? Canucks with nukes On our streets Canucks with nukes Polar creeps Canucks with nukes And they're on our streets Canucks with nukes And they're on our streets OW! Radiation, EMP, Mushroom Clouds... EXPLOSIONS Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhgggh! Canucks with nukes And they're on our streets Canucks with nukes And they're on our streets BOOM….sssssstttt. Last edited on Mon Jun 29th, 2009 04:25 pm by Sonora Rebel |
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marshaul Activist Member
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lol, that would make a good cartoon. |
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