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smoking357
Banned
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Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 09:26 pm |
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I am posting this here, because Arkansas is a state in which only concealed carry is allowed. Please discuss the idea for its feasibility in Arkansas. If your laws concerning what is "concealed" are similar to Florida's, this manner of carry might be a middle ground between concealed and full open.
In Florida, we are somewhat limited in our ability to show this reminder of force to power, as we cannot openly display our guns:
790.053 Open carrying of weapons.--
(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.
Our weapons must be concealed:
790.001 Definitions.--As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires: (2) "Concealed firearm" means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.
Since I can't openly carry the gun, the next best course is to openly carry a holster, but the holster must "conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person." With cops being what they are, you are well advised to ensure that not a single atom from the gun is visible to the ordinary sight of another person.
To this end, I've purchased this holster:
It's a hard-shell holster for a Walther P38, but I'll see what else fits in it. It completely conceals and encases the gun, and it could as easily contain a cell phone and a hairbrush as it would a gun.
I'm planning on wearing it on a nylon duty belt, completely openly. If we can't have open carry, open holster carry might be the next best thing.
Now, I'm not going to stuff a gun down it, right away. I'm going to wear it a while and document the interactions with police here. I want to create a database of police interaction that evidences that police made a fuss about these holsters and found nothing in them but cell phones so that when we decide to switch over to carrying, there will be abundant documentation that a holster worn openly is not proof that the gun is not concealed from the ordinary view of another. Last edited on Mon Jul 20th, 2009 09:30 pm by smoking357
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Michigander
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 12:36 am |
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That's a really great idea.I hope it works well for you, and maybe catches on in other rights restricted states.
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smoking357
Banned
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Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 01:13 pm |
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Michigander wrote: That's a really great idea.I hope it works well for you, and maybe catches on in other rights restricted states.
There are five states that allow concealed carry but not open carry.
Arkansas
Florida
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Texas
So much for the South being pro gun.
We need to bring this to a point.
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Michigander
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 04:03 pm |
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It would also have a place in states such as New York, New Jersey, Hawaii, and Maryland.
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Chickenwang
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 04:58 am |
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| SPEAKING OF THE SOUTH HAVE YOU HEARD OF SLAVE CODES?
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ccwinstructor
Centurion Member
| Joined: | Fri Jul 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Yuma, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 121 |
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Posted: Sat Aug 1st, 2009 05:24 pm |
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| I like this idea. I did it for a day back in the early 1980s in Madison, Wisconsin. If "flag burning" is protected speech, I do not see how open holster carrying can be anything but protected speech.
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aadvark
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Posted: Fri Aug 28th, 2009 05:43 pm |
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Arkansas Law is based off of Jim Crow Law when it comes to Firearms.
Arkansas Law, concerning Firearms, is complex, and ultimately very hostile towards any type of carry.
Even with a Arkansas Permit, you can only carry your Firearm concealed, and you would probably even get arrested for imprinting.
For some reason, Arkansas's neighbors Oklahoma and Texas both have this problem. South Carolina has this problem as well. These four States may change soon, however.
Florida... the only other Southern State... which I consider more Northern in mind state... will probaly never come off of their open carry restrictions.
There is hope left for Arkansas... but Arkansas will have to get over Jim Crow.
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Gordon Shumway
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Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 06:07 pm |
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I think that people generally in these types of discussions are missing the point.
Concealed means concealed= undetectable as a gun.
That in itself removes the over-reaction of the general public and police officers if they see a weapon, and keeps everybody calm. Many people will never like open carry because they have seen too much gun violence in movies.
I have one of the lowest CC permit numbers. This summer I became acquainted with a local officer and after a discussion about concealed carry, I finally showed him that I had a full sized government 1911 under my t-shirt, and he was amazed that it was non-detectable.
Nobody needs to know you have a weapon. And YOU don't need them to know that you do (why so macho?). The whole deal is not about macho, it is about personal protection.
As far as I am concerned the only time I like open carry is in the woods or in an boat on the river: Snake shot.
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AEubanks
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 07:19 am |
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aadvark wrote: Even with a Arkansas Permit, you can only carry your Firearm concealed, and you would probably even get arrested for imprinting.
Gordon Shumway wrote:Concealed means concealed= undetectable as a gun.
Not quite--
Arkansas Code Annotated
§5-73-301. Definitions.
As used in this sub chapter:
(1) “Concealed” means to cover from observation so as to prevent public
view.
To say you would probably get arrested form imprinting I would say is a bit of an exaggeration. I seriously seriously doubt that. As long as I have it covered, I feel in the clear. Even if lets say I have a IWB and my shirt covers it, but there is a bulge, and I got arrested, I wouldn't worry because I don't believe that would hold water in court.
You might say that a bulge is a view for the public so if there is one that it is not concealed according to the definition, but I would argue that it would be the same as saying that every woman should be arrested for indecent exposure because you can see two bulges in their shirts in public. They are covered, as is my gun and thus they are concealed.
Not a lawyer by any means, just my opinion.
I agree that if you are CC it would defeat the purpose to have a bulge to some degree (depending on the situation), but causing your CC to basically be an OC, I think not.
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Gordon Shumway
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 04:10 am |
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Consider this:
I CAN cost you $2000 (or more) to go to court in North Little Rock for the judge to say "not guilty, case dismissed" and then he chews the arresting officer out for wasting the court's time........
But it still cost me $2000, for lawyer, two days off work, vehicle impound fee, towing fee, and car damaged by towing company.
So just do whatever you think you can get away with. Maybe you won't find a prick city cop and state troopers.
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Gordon Shumway
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 03:22 pm |
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Oh, I forgot to mention.
....Being told by a AR State Trooper (I quote) "Anyone with more than $40 is a drug dealer. You're doing something wrong and we're gonna prove it." ((at which point I was sure they were going to plant drugs in my car..... they didn't.))
It is a longer story, but I won in court.
You should try the handcuffed and sitting in jail 5 hours, it might be a good experience.
I have been carrying concealed for 30 years and this was the only incident.
I don't think that legal open carry solves anything or puts people at ease with the gun situation.
Last edited on Sun Nov 8th, 2009 03:28 pm by Gordon Shumway
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mark edward marchiafava
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 18th, 2009 05:40 pm |
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It appears ya'll are missing smoking's point: a visible reminder to the "powers that be."
CCW can't possibly convey that message, quite the opposite.
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