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OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Washington > Washington Gun Rights Pamplet Done!!!
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| OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Washington > Washington Gun Rights Pamplet Done!!!
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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See my next post down for an inkjet version formatted by 2nd_to_one for proper printing on HP and some other printers. See which one works best for you. Go here for a discussion about distribution of this pamphlet: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=8552&forum_id=55&jump_to=138496#p138496 Attachment: Free Washington Gun Rights Pamphlet.pdf (Downloaded 3491 times) Last edited on Sat Apr 12th, 2008 11:30 pm by surfj9009 |
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ScorpioMk Regular Member 
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Only thing I have to say right now from a quick glance is that we in washington have CPL's (Concealed Pistol License) not a CWP. After it gets looked over by everyone else that see's something to change its definatly something I'll print and keep with me at all times. Marcus |
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Agent 47 Regular Member 
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Excellent!! That looks like something that will be really handy to have.  |
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joeroket Regular Member
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Agent 47 wrote: Excellent!! That looks like something that will be really handy to have. I agree 100%. It looks very well thought out and assembled. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Edited to reflect ScorpioMk's proofreading. Thanks a ton. The CWP wording was actually cut and pasted from a training bulletin!!!! ScorpioMk wrote: Only thing I have to say right now from a quick glance is that we in washington have CPL's (Concealed Pistol License) not a CWP. After it gets looked over by everyone else that see's something to change its definatly something I'll print and keep with me at all times. Attachment: Washington Gun Rights_Inkjet.pdf (Downloaded 669 times) Last edited on Sat Apr 12th, 2008 11:30 pm by surfj9009 |
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G27 Regular Member 
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That's beautiful. Good job. +1000 for sure. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Ok everybody. My buddy who is a graphics design artist helped me get the format down. It should print out just fine now. I had to eliminate a few things to get it properly printable. The download link has been updated with the new file. So you may wish to replace your previous download with this one. I think it's pretty much as refined as I can get it. |
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just_a_car Regular Member 
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That pamphlet looks great! I like both quotes as-is. Well, since you asked for it, I'll put on my spelling/grammar-freak hat that I normally take off when I log onto the internet.
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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New PDF posted implementing all of just a car's suggestions with the exception of the following. just_a_car wrote:
Due to the amount of information in the pamphlet, there is very little room for too many changes. |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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Cool. I can understand not including that... since our right to open carry is due to not having a law against it. Thus, if there's no law against having a firearm too close to you while carried "peacably", then it's not illegal. |
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kparker Regular Member
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You have a numbering problem in the RCW 9.41.300 section. The paragraph numbered (2) ("These areas do not include...") is not (2), it's a further paragraph under (1). (2) should be the paragraph beginning "Cities, Towns, Counties..." and the rest of the numbers should be adjusted to match. Otherwise, fabulous work! |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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kparker wrote: You have a numbering problem in the RCW 9.41.300 section. Thanks for pointing that one out. Fixed it. New PDF in original post, yet again. That was from all the formatting adjustments I've had to make. Thanks for catching it!!! Keep up the info guys. I've been looking at this thing so long that I keep missing little stuff like that and I'm so tired of looking at it that I need to stop reading it. I sure am glad I started it though. Maybe after I get it perfect it can be posted on the training bulletins page. Last edited on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 05:47 am by surfj9009 |
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kparker Regular Member
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How far into grammatical and punctuation niceties do you want to go? If the answer is, "as far as anyone can find and comment on", then let me further add that Facts About Lawfully Carrying section has a couple of minor items: A. The examples in 1.) and 2.) are punctuated and formatted as if they were full sentences, but are in fact not. Given the space constraints you have, it's probably better to just make them into dependent clauses, e.g. This means a person may carry a firearm in an exposed holster without any kind of permit unless there is something that makes is specifically illegal. For example carrying a weapon onto primary or secondary school grounds or other prohibited places, or carrying a weapon by most felons or anyont convicted of a domestic violence crime. could become This means a person may carry a firearm in an exposed holster without any kind of permit unless there is something that makes is specifically illegal (for example, carrying a weapon onto primary or secondary school grounds or other prohibited places, or carrying a weapon by most felons or anyone convicted of a domestic violence crime.) and similarly for the example in 2.) B. In the last sentence of 2), there's a space before the comma following 'example', instead of after the comma. C. In the interests of space, if you took out most of the space before and after the bullets under Licensing and Places Off-Limits, the last two bullet items would probably fit on one line each, giving you a bit more vertical space in that column. D. Also regarding space, if you turned hyphenation on, it might help fill up the space better (notably 'circumstances' in #2 would do so.) |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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kparker, thank you for your input. I want it to be perfect. You never know who is going to get their hands on this thing one day. I sent you a PM |
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RangerAv8r Regular Member 
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Wow!!! Great work. Thank you very much. M |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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kparker wrote: How far into grammatical and punctuation niceties do you want to go? All of the changes above were made except for the hyphenation thing, still trying to get my head around that. New PDF in the first post, yet again! Be patient guys. One day it will be perfect and we can share it with everyone!!! |
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John Hardin Regular Member 
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surfj9009 wrote: Due to the amount of information in the pamphlet, there is very little room for too many changes. If you're tight on space, consider dropping the images. They add no useful content. You could also format it for legal size paper - I've considered doing that for my pamphlets to gain some more space for information. http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/firearms_laws_washington.pdf http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/open_carry_training_bulletins_washington.pdf --  Last edited on Sat Jun 28th, 2008 08:56 pm by John Hardin |
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heresolong Regular Member 
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John Hardin wrote: surfj9009 wrote:I like the images. Gives you the impression of something interesting that you need to read, rather than just a piece of paper full of uninteresting facts.Due to the amount of information in the pamphlet, there is very little room for too many changes. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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heresolong wrote:I like the images too. to me it is a little more inviting to read.I like the images. Gives you the impression of something interesting that you need to read, rather than just a piece of paper full of uninteresting facts. I like the training bulletins John Hardin did in that format, but I carry that just as a reference for me. I am designing this pamplet with the intention of wide distribution and so I want it to be as professional as possible. Formatting it for legal paper may be worth looking at though. |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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+1 to keeping the images! That's something I'd carry many copies of to hand out to people. I carry the other documents for my own reference also. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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New PDF up, again. It was edited to make the "Disclaimer" same size font as other section headings in column 1. Retyped 2 of the useful resources webpage addresses, also made them all the same color. One was the wrong shade of blue. Also added a empty line before "RCW 9.41.290 – State Preemption" on the second page in the last column. (Just to make it all uniform) |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher 
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Thank you for the work. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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New PDF again. Changed some spacing to hopefully make it print up in a better way to allow proper folding. I can't think of anything else, so hopefully I can leave it alone now.  |
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Trigger Dr Regular Member 
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That looks like just the right thing to pass out at the store when I sell a gun to someone in the grey area of OC knowledge. I think I'll print about 500 and see what happens. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Trigger Dr wrote: That looks like just the right thing to pass out at the store when I sell a gun to someone in the grey area of OC knowledge. I think I'll print about 500 and see what happens. Do It!!!!! Heck yes. That's exactly what I am talking about!!! I was thinking about getting a table at one of the gun shows over here sometime. Although I am not a dealer, it would get a lot of awareness. I would have no problem hanging out and talking with people over a weekend, once my skills at verbally communicating about OC are sharpened. I was also thinking about putting a bunch down on the board at the Spokane Rifle Club and the other local range if they let me someday. |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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I could totally print out a bunch in black-and-white, but color copies are dang expensive. I think I'll print off anywhere from 50-100 of 'em to start off. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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So where do you guys plan on giving these out? Gunshows, ranges, interested individuals who ask about OC of course. But where else? Let's get ideas going. |
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Trigger Dr Regular Member
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Well, I have been handing out TB's at the gunshow locally for the past 3 months, and printed one in color 2 sided today, laminated it and have it on the counter at the store (Sportsmans Warehouse). Just a little expensive in color for my retired budget, but, Will get some in B/W also for handouts. BUT I WILL Do color handouts at the gunshow. I normally have a couple of tables, and get a lot of attention there. Jim |
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Ajetpilot Regular Member 
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I thought I remembered something about prohibited uses of the Washington State Seal. I found it:
(1) Except as otherwise provided in RCW 43.04.040, the state seal shall not be used on or in connection with any advertising or promotion for any product, business, organization, service, or article whether offered for sale for profit or offered without charge. RCW 43.04.040 says you can use it for educational purposes, but you have to get permission in writing, and there is a filing fee that must be paid with your request. Is there anything else that can be used that would connote Washington State but is not the official seal? |
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John Hardin Regular Member
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Ajetpilot wrote: Is there anything else that can be used that would connote Washington State but is not the official seal? An outline of the state? If you did it as a watermark you wouldn't even have to lose any space for information. |
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heresolong Regular Member
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Ajetpilot wrote: I thought I remembered something about prohibited uses of the Washington State Seal. I found it:I read the rules that the Secretary of State promulgated and we definitely shouldn't be using it without an application and a filing fee. I'd say replace it with an outline of the state of Washington. Good catch ajetpilot. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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NEW PDF UP!!! DEFINITELY A GOOD CATCH!!! YOU GUYS ARE BEING TREMENDOUSLY HELPFUL AND I APPRECIATE IT VERY, VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. I looked online for a good replacement image. Found a green picture of the state which I think is the best replacement. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I am not sure how I feel about not being able to use our state seal, but it is just easier to replace than go through all the trouble. I corrected the quote under "Facts about carrying a firearm", section 2 to the proper wording directly from the RCW. I am surprised that got by all of us. It was cut and pasted from a different source, a training bulletin actually, but was not 100% accurate in how it was worded. I was tempted to eliminate the example given there and replace it with a "shock and awe" quote from State vs. Casad instead. I am not sure if I could put the proper wording from that case in though given the space restrictions. I went to Kinko's last night and printed one up on a laser printer in color, and it looked sweet!!! Unfortunately, they said it was .48 for each side if it is printed in color. OUCH!!! Only eight cents each side if printed in black and white. If one wanted to save some money, but still retain the "appeal" of color, you could specify to print the first page in color and the second in black and white. That would only cost .56 per page. Straight black in white would only be .16 each. I was thinking it might look really good on a light green piece of paper. I like the idea of the color for things like distributing at the guns shows, shops, ranges, and place where your likely to find "gun folks" who will actually keep it, read it, and then pass it on. Mass distribution events would obviously be much cheaper for things like the Bloomsday, the county fairs, parades, downtown public events, and 4th of July public gatherings.  If there is anybody who owns a print shop, or has a connection to get better prices on printing, please see what you can do to get a deal for us. If there are enough people willing to chip in some money when it is finished, we may all be able to save some money by pooling some cash to print several thousand at a time. Kind of like a group buy thing.  Last edited on Tue Feb 5th, 2008 07:04 pm by surfj9009 |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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surfj9009 wrote:
What do you mean by "got by all of us"?... I quoted it perfectly in my second bullet on the first page. Admittedly, I added some bolding to emphasize some points, but I don't think that counts as improper wording. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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just_a_car wrote: surfj9009 wrote: Sorry Just a car, it got by ME. I think when you suggested correcting it I failed to correct the WORDING. I must have glanced at it and thought it was correct, and moved on to the bold face and underlining. Damn, my bad. |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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No worries, the amount of work you've put into this project more than makes up for any mistakes. You should also put a little "open copyright" at the bottom about how it's copyright to yourself and members of WA OCDO forums, but is free to copy and distribute in it's original unaltered form. That way, you don't have to worry about anti-gunners taking anything in it and reproducing it, without consent, not in it's entirety... at least legally.  Last edited on Tue Feb 5th, 2008 10:09 pm by just_a_car |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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just_a_car wrote: No worries, the amount of work you've put into this project more than makes up for any mistakes. Pardon my ignorance, but I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. If you were going to write the statement, what would you write? |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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It's called an "open copyright" but also a Creative Commons® Copyright. You essentially allow reproduction and distribution with the limitations determined by the kind of copyright license you indicate. More can be read about here: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ Also, look up "open copyright". |
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Trigger Dr Regular Member
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My daughter works at a print shop, and I was quoted .56 per page. That is both sides color. Roughly $280.00 for 500. The cost would go down with a larger order. G27, Thanks for stopping by the store today, good to see you again if only briefly. Jim |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Updated again to add copyright. Moved the disclaimer. Added line for the folds. My buddy came by and fixed the formatting for me too. Moved a few things around and created some room for any additional text changes that are needed down the road, if any. Could somebody print it for me and see if it came out ok? Everytime I print it it cuts off the edge, but my buddy says it should be perfect. I think my printer might be messing up. |
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joeroket Regular Member
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Prints perfect for me. Try setting your page scaling to "scale to printable area". |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Yeah, it will work that way, but I hate having the huge margins. Do the folds match up ok if you print it that way? joeroket wrote: Prints perfect for me. Try setting your page scaling to "scale to printable area". |
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joeroket Regular Member
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Yes the folds are exactly one third from each margin. Of course I am using an HP 220 Laser Printer but it still should be the same on any printer. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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joeroket wrote: Yes the folds are exactly one third from each margin. Of course I am using an HP 220 Laser Printer but it still should be the same on any printer. Ok thanks for checking. It's done now. I'm leaving town for 4 weeks so I'll be back. As far as I can see I have everything right on it. Please feel free to distribute as much as you all want. |
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joeroket Regular Member
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Nice job. Thanks a bunch. I added it to the nwcdl.org forum downloads. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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joeroket wrote: Nice job. Thanks a bunch. I added it to the nwcdl.org forum downloads. Awesome!!! |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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surfj9009 wrote: So where do you guys plan on giving these out? Gunshows, ranges, interested individuals who ask about OC of course. But where else? Let's get ideas going.Blue shift of the Olympia Police Department  Anyplace I frequent OCing where it has come up. How about local media? Especially the smaller indy media outlets? |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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sv_libertarian wrote: How about local media? Especially the smaller indy media outlets? Good idea. Small local independent weekly newspapers. Radio station satellite events. |
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Crackajack Regular Member 
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It wouldn't be a totally bad idea to print out some of these at like Kinkos or something, have them look professional, and send them to some Sheriffs and Police chiefs along with a letter to see if they are interested in handing these out in the lobbies of their departments. |
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Trigger Dr Regular Member
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Maybe, set up a special account at a bank, where donations can be made to finance the printing of a few thousand copies. As quantity goes up price goes down. |
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TechnoWeenie Regular Member
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I talked to the sportsmans warehouse in Lacey. They will 'host' the pamphlets at their gun counters.. they're about 20 cents each pamphlet... I will be taking donations through paypal so we can get these printed out, with the approval of the powers that be. |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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Started a discussion of this pamphlet at olyblog.net here http://www.olyblog.net/washington-state-gun-rights-pamphlet The owner of the website while he will not believe the right to bear arms is a civil right, was in all fairness willing to see this document posted. The link takes readers to this thread on OCDO. Since olyblog is supposed to be "hyperlocal" I felt the urge to clear this through the owner of the page, hence some of my opening statements... This should liven Oly up again. Thanks! |
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Trigger Dr Regular Member
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Kitsap County Sheriff office is now in possession of the flyer, with gfood response so far. I gave a few to one of the detectives today when he was in the store. The det. and I go back about 20+ years and from what he says, things are OK with KCSO. The sheriff is a retired WSP officer and is well aware of the RCW's involved. Jim |
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Ajetpilot Regular Member
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Thanks, Jim. I sent the sheriff all the training bulletins I could find several months ago. Never got a response. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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TechnoWeenie wrote:I talked to the sportsmans warehouse in Lacey. They will 'host' the pamphlets at their gun counters.. they're about 20 cents each pamphlet... I will be taking donations through paypal so we can get these printed out, the approval of the powers that be. is that for color or black and white? |
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Morris Regular Member
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Surf: Congrats! Looks spiffy and along the lines I had. Suggest that you send some to the FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR of the departments versus a CLEO. You would likely get a better response. Also, send some to the CJTC and to WSLEFIA (http://www.wslefia.com). |
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TechnoWeenie Regular Member
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surfj9009 wrote:TechnoWeenie wrote: B/W.. Color is ridiculous for a pamphlet, better off going with colored paper and black text if you want to 'stand out'... |
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Trigger Dr Regular Member
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Also, go to your local agency where they take application for CPL. See if you can get them to keep a stack available for applicants. Use the logic "This will keep people legal when they carry a gun" Jim |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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all good ideas here! I can't wait to get back home so the activism can begin! Sometimes I hate being stuck on a ship, especially when I have fun projects at home I could bewoeking on like this. |
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Trigger Dr Regular Member
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Surfj9009 are you merchant marine? |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Trigger Dr wrote:Surfj9009 yes. I am using my iPhone to get on here a bit. No real Internet onboard. I work on a dredge. Right now we are deepening the Columbia river just outside Vancouver. Cell phone service is really good here. I brought my laptop with me so hopefully I will be able to type some letters while I am out iff I can get that done while I'm here then when I get home I can hit the ground running and start banging on some doors. Once the weather is nice enough on the pass i will be planning some drives over to OC with you westsiders. I've never been to Oly before either so I look forward to getting over there and meeting some of you. |
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ShooterMcGavin Regular Member
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surfj9009 wrote: I corrected the quote under "Facts about carrying a firearm", section 2 to the proper wording directly from the RCW. I am surprised that got by all of us. It was cut and pasted from a different source, a training bulletin actually, but was not 100% accurate in how it was worded. I was tempted to eliminate the example given there and replace it with a "shock and awe" quote from State vs. Casad instead. I am not sure if I could put the proper wording from that case in though given the space restrictions. I don't think this section has been corrected yet. I just downloaded the PDF and it reads: To quote RCW 9.41.270, that part should state: "in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm...."I don't mean to pry, but since the document is very much related to open carrying, that statement might be the most important text on both pages. The concealed carry laws are pretty straight forward, but there has been considerable gray area surrounding that specific part of the RCW. BTW, excellent job and thank you!!!!! I have never OC'd in Washington mainly because of my fear of encountering uninformed officers. I can't afford lawyers. This pamphlet helps a lot of people!!!! |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Thanks shooter. I don't know why that keeps slipping by me. Although the change was very slight, it is an important part of the text. With the inclusion of that specific RCW on page 2, I suppose the information was there already, but I did change it. I would have done it sooner, but I have been out of town and my ability to update the file was nil. Now that I am home, it's time to start beating on some doors and getting this thing out there here in Spokane. Who has been printing these lately in large amounts, and what has your cost been? I want to get a bunch printed, but my costs are too high. If you guys can let me know by email or PM what you pay, maybe I can send some funds to you for the service and you can ship them to me. Thanks Surfj9009 |
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2nd_to_one Regular Member
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Surfj9009, First let me say what an awesome job putting this together. It looks really professional and manages to cram a great deal of information into a pretty small space. I did find one minor typo when reading through it though, on the second page under RCW 9.41.300 (2)(a) the word abridged should be abridge. I also have a question for you and anyone else on the board who has printed this. I have an HP Officejet K550 printer (inkjet) with a duplexer on it. When I try to print the pamphlet it cuts off the edges as the printable area seems to begin just less than 0.5 inch from each end. What printers have people used with success? If I allow Adobe reader to scale the page to printable area the folds do not appear in the correct place. One more thing. I don't know if any other members have looked at this but my consumables cost for printing these in color would be in the neighborhood of 8 to 13 cents a page (paper and ink). It might even be less depending upon the actual ink consumption. I am using the page estimates from HP and I don't know what assumptions they make. If this could be made to print correctly on an inkjet like mine it would not be particularly expensive to print large numbers and handing them out at gunshows and stores would be pretty easy. Thanks again for your hard work. Steve |
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Trigger Dr Regular Member
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I am printing them on a Lexmark X1185 from my computer. I have not figured cost yet as I still do not know how many I can print before running out of ink. So far I have printed 75. Paper is free, as office depot used to give a ream of paper for an empty ink cartridge, and I really took advantage of that program. I print one side, turn the paper over and print the other side. The folds do not line up exactly, but close enough to still work. jim |
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Mainsail Regular Member 
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I tried it on the mighty HP 5550 Color LaserJet in the office and it prints out fine with one exception, the reverse page is upside-down. Something is whacked. |
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2nd_to_one Regular Member
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Gentlemen Thank you for the replies. Mainsail, Your printer driver should have an option to "flip on long edge" or something to this effect. This controls whether the pages are printed so that they are readable in a horizontal or vertical flip book form. Try changing this setting and your problem should go away. Note that the setting will be different for landscape versus portait printing as well. Hope this helps, Steve |
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joeroket Regular Member
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You want to do a "flip on short edge" with this document. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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I still can't seem to get it to print on my printer properly, but i got tired of messing with it so now I just go to Staples to get it printed. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Implemented the spelling fix that was found by 2nd_to_none. Also tweaked a margin at #6 under "facts about carrying" It is a good thing that we are still getting the bugs worked out on this. I do want it to be perfect. Thanks for all who have been patient. I would just get in the habit of coming back every once in a while to check for a new file. I will continue to post the changes made in the first post of this thread as they happen. i bet your all thinking it's too bad I didn't get it perfect the first time huh? Well, that's just not how things usually work for me. LOL. I don't see much more to fix on it though, but even little typos should be fixed, so if you find them, post here and I will continue tofix them. You never know where these things will end up, so keep up the feedback. i do appreciate it. |
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phiche92 Regular Member
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I just want to commend you for a great job! I printed this last night on extra heavy weight imaging paper and it looks fantastic! I gave a couple copies to my son and to a co-worker and told them to share with pro-gun friends. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Bump. New file up. Read the first post!! |
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Ajetpilot Regular Member
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Very nice! The blue printing on selected passages makes it quick and easy to find the most important items. The highlighting looks very professional. Outstanding! |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Thanks. I like the blue too. I think it looks the sharpest out of all the colors I tried. One thing I still want to try to do is this: You know on the Thomas Jefferson image how it is square? I am hoping to get my graphics design buddy to modify that picture so that it will only print the oval part. I suck at picture editing, so I am going to leave that to him when he can get to it. The first 5000 run of printing will be submitted after we reach 5000 and I get that image edited. I dont want to print it on nice paper in color and have those corners on the picture. It works fine for now, you know, but it is something that can be fixed. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Fixed a tiny typo found by pssthpok. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Just FYI for everybody. I sent an email to the Secretary of State's office with regards to filing for approval to use the official state seal. I have no idea what the filing fee will be, or if it is even worth it, but since it is for educational purposes only and not for profit, we should have a decent shot at being able to use it. Will let you all know what I come up with. I sent them a copy of it how it is now, and a copy of one with the state image replaced by the Washington flag. Last edited on Tue Mar 4th, 2008 05:53 am by surfj9009 |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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surfj9009 wrote: Thanks shooter. I don't know why that keeps slipping by me. Although the change was very slight, it is an important part of the text. surfj, I need to point out you never did fix Fact 2.) as I had pointed out in my response on page 1. It needs to read: "...in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another person or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." -RCW 9.41.270 That last part is VERY important and has been a point of contention for OC'ers for a very long time. It's not sufficient that someone be alarmed, it must warrant alarm for the safety of others. That simple addition makes the difference between being able to haul in an OC'er for breaking the law and just harrassing them because they're doing nothing illegal. |
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Mainsail Regular Member
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just_a_car wrote: surfj9009 wrote:Thanks shooter. I don't know why that keeps slipping by me. Although the change was very slight, it is an important part of the text. Agree. That's huge. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Mainsail wrote: just_a_car wrote:surfj9009 wrote:Thanks shooter. I don't know why that keeps slipping by me. Although the change was very slight, it is an important part of the text. I fixed it. I think I did actually fix that part before. When I started adding more color I had to revert to an older file that must not have been updated to reflect that. i may have overlooked it again though too, not sure. But it is huge, and I'm glad you brought it up. This file will probably be sent out for it's first run of 5000 in the next 2 weeks so all the scrutiny you guys can provide is greatly appreciated. Please feel free to proofread it a few times and let me know about anything else you find that should be corrected. This thing has gone through so many revisions since I first posted it, that I never should have titled the thread with the word "done" in it.  When I searched for "washington gun rights" last night, this thread came up as #3. Yeahhh!!! So I changed the file name to show "free" in it and hopefully that might bring us a few more visits/downloads. I dunno, but maybe. Last edited on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 06:16 pm by surfj9009 |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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If anybody has suggestions as to where else I should add some more color, underlining, highlighting, and visual accents anywhere please feel free to make your suggestions. While I think it looks pretty good now, I am still open to suggestions as far as the visual aspects go too because if we are going to go in on printing a large number of these, we all should get to voice our opinion of the finished product and what we want to see in it. Thanks again for all the help everybody. |
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t3rmin Regular Member
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I can't seem to find the download link. Is it supposed to be in the first post? |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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t3rmin wrote: I can't seem to find the download link. Is it supposed to be in the first post?It was there, but since the board is having errors, I can't update that post to show the new file. Follow the link in that post though, and it will take you a thread with the file. |
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Cremator75 Regular Member 
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This is beautiful. Maybe someone with more skills than me can make one for Oregon. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Just a quick bump since I was finally able to put the newest file back in the first thread where it originally was. |
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LongRider Regular Member 
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Hello, This is my first post here. Though I have been visiting / lurking for a while I registered today so I could comment on this and say thank you very much. One of the most useful intelligent items I have found on any pro 2A website. This is a great tool and one I will use if ever confronted by a LEO about my open carrying. As well as to help inform other interested parties. As an Art Director / graphic designer, CEO of an award winning Ad Agency, I would like to applaud your efforts you have done an excellent job. The only possible suggestion I have is that if you really felt the need to not omit any part of the RCW's you used, you could go to a legal page format with four columns rather than three. Personally I do not see the need it is clean concise and appealing as is. Great, lay out, look and feel. Every law enforcement agency in the state should distribute copies of this to all law enforcement officers, prosecutors as part of their mandatory training. I do intend on sending your link to a Washington State Patrol Training Officer, so that he can use it as part of his course. Well done. Thank you. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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LongRider wrote: Hello, This is my first post here. Though I have been visiting / lurking for a while I registered today so I could comment on this and say thank you very much. One of the most useful intelligent items I have found on any pro 2A website. This is a great tool and one I will use if ever confronted by a LEO about my open carrying. As well as to help inform other interested parties.Longrider, welcome to the board. Washington has a great section on this site. There was a lot of work by many people to get this done. My friend helped with the format a bunch, as he is a graphics design artist for Signal Point. I had considered going legal format but I wanted to keep it straight and to the point, without overdoing it. I was also concerned with making it easy to print for anybody who downloads it. I am really hoping this does end up in the hands of many LEO's in this state. I plan on sending it to some training officers, and other local departments here in the Spokane area. Chief of police, sheriff, etc. Maybe even the newspaper, city council, etc. etc. etc. Well again, welcome to the community. Please feel free to deliver this pamphlet to anybody you want, copy it, print it, and all that, as much as your heart desires. That's why we made it. Hopefully one day we will see you at an OC get together or lunch or something. |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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LongRider wrote: Hello, This is my first post here. Though I have been visiting / lurking for a while I registered today so I could comment on this and say thank you very much. One of the most useful intelligent items I have found on any pro 2A website. This is a great tool and one I will use if ever confronted by a LEO about my open carrying. As well as to help inform other interested parties.Greetings and welcome! May I inquire as to where in Washington you are? |
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LongRider Regular Member
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sv_libertarian wrote:Greetings and welcome! May I inquire as to where in Washington you are?Just west of you off the Skokomish Reservation Last edited on Fri Apr 11th, 2008 06:16 pm by LongRider |
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2nd_to_one Regular Member
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Surfj9009, I am still not getting good results printing it on my inkjet printer. The printable area on my printer seems to require about 3/8 inch of whitespace on each margin. I suspect that your problem is similar as most inkjets tend to have larger unprintable areas on the (what would be) top and bottom of the page than laser printers due to paper handlling requirements. In light of this I had a couple of questions. First, what program did you use to develop the pamphlet layout? Second, would you be amenable to sharing your original source file? I would like to play around with the font sizes and margins to see if I can get it formatted to work well on my printer. If I can then perhaps you could make both versions available because I suspect that I am not the only one having problems printing it on an inkjet. For what it's worth I have used several different variations of scaling and other settings and while I can get it to print without cutting off the edges it does not fold neatly. I printed it on an HP color laser printer and it fits with no scaling and looks really good. Please let me know what you think. Regards, Steve |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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2nd_to_one wrote: Surfj9009,I used open office, available at openoffice.org for free. It's just like Microsoft word but free. I would put the file up here, but it won't let me because it is an invalid attachment. I suspect opening it with word would make it look quite a bit different. PM me your email though and I will email the original source to you. If you get it right, email it back to me and I will put it up in the first post as an alternative to the first. That's a very good idea. I don't doubt others have the same problem. I just can't fix it, because my bud did most of the formatting for me. It still wont work on my HP right either.  Last edited on Sat Apr 12th, 2008 04:31 am by surfj9009 |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Well it wouldnt let me post 2 files in the same post, so i listed the edited one in my second post in this thread. I feel like I am jumping all over the place. |
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LongRider Regular Member
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surfj9009 wrote: If anybody has suggestions as to where else I should add some more color, underlining, highlighting, and visual accents anywhere please feel free to make your suggestions. While I think it looks pretty good now, I am still open to suggestions as far as the visual aspects go too because if we are going to go in on printing a large number of these, we all should get to voice our opinion of the finished product and what we want to see in it.If you are going to a traditional four color proccess print shop as opposed to some place like Kinko's. I can do the color seperations for you before sending it to the printer, to make sure all the color adjustments, traps & bleeds are done correctly. That will save you money on set or at press time because the printer will be happy as it makes his job easier i.e faster cheaper. If you send me the orginal file of any graphics you need edited. I can do those for you as good or better than anyone on the west coast or at least that is what all the awards on my wall say. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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I am just bumping this for the recent influx of new guys. |
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Alwayspacking Activist Member 
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Good job on the pamphlet... Thanks for your time and effort in the cause. With dedication and commitment like yours it's going to make a difference bit by bit to the Non-OC, and those who are uneducated in the subject matter. |
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2nd_to_one Regular Member
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In the absence of a sticky for this very useful posting I am replying to bump it to the top for our new readers. Regards, Steve |
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t3rmin Regular Member
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Bump for sticky! Had a heck of a time finding this thread today... |
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David.Car Regular Member 
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BTT |
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M1Gunr Regular Member 
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bump |
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Machoduck Regular Member 
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Bump. MD |
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heresolong Regular Member
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Who do you have to kill around here to get something made a sticky? |
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Jim675 Founder's Club Member 
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Sorry folks, I've been updating the other thread. I've ordered 5000 glossies of the original layout. Other variations can be ordered if desired. I believe its about a week before they hit my place in Seattle. Can we merge these threads? |
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heresolong Regular Member
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Any chance that in a future iteration you could add little fold marks? That would make it much easier to consistently fold them nicely. Thanks. Edit: Never mind. Just printed out the latest version and there they are, large as life. Fold marks. Thanks. Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 04:34 pm by heresolong |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Bumping this for the new folks here and to keep it higher on Google when the term "Washington Gun Rights" is searched.  |
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Bookman Regular Member
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Surf, I've only been on here for a couple of weeks now and finally found this thread. I want to thank you for all of the hard work you put into this. It looks great and is probably the single, most useful bit of work I've seen on any forum, including the cookbook I compiled for a different site. |
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Gene Beasley Regular Member 
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Ah, perfect timing. Until I hear back from Jim675, I have the box of pamphlets. I will go out of my way to meet up with anyone who wants some. They are $5 per 100. They are professionally printed on sturdy glossy stock very, very nice. I agree, kudo's to surf for all the work on this and to Jim who picked up distributing this 2nd run. I think they are well worth it. PM me or send me an email. Depending on the day I can do south Seattle and south as far as say Ft. Lewis area. I would have considered south Kitsap, but not paying the toll. If outside that area, PM me anyway. I'll be on vacation next week (woot!) and can't really afford to actually stay anywhere, so the wife and I are planning some day trips. Tell me about your local attraction and it might work out. Always up for coffee as well. |
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BlaineG Regular Member
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Thanks for your work on this.....very helpful, and educational. |
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Ajetpilot Regular Member
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Gene Beasley wrote:
PM sent. I can pick up all for Kitsap County and distribute here or at the Mason County picnic. Let me know. |
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Ajetpilot Regular Member
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Okay, I've got all the pamphlets that have been ordered by those who live on the Kitsap Peninsula thanks to Gene Beasley who dropped them off at my house tonight. I'll be bringing them to the Mason County picnic for distribution. I also have some extras for anyone who failed to order but would like some. Come & get 'em! Last edited on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 04:29 am by Ajetpilot |
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DEROS72 Regular Member 
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Outstanding job getting that together.Latley I at my last art show I past out more pamplets than I sold art.Doing the best I can to get the message out.It fits perfectly with my military ,pro American art work. |
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Ajetpilot Regular Member
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I sold 500 pamphlets at the Mason County picnic, and I still have several hundred left. If you live on the peninsula side of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, and you have not received pamphlets that ordered, PM me and we can make arrangements to get them to you. Likewise, if you didn't order any and would like to get some, let me know. When I run out, I won't be getting any more. If you live elsewhere, contact Jim675 . |
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trevorthebusdriver Regular Member 
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PMd jim675, got no reply. Will anyone have some at the Seattle dinner on Saturday? |
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QuintinB Regular Member
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Question: Am i right in understanding that ANYONE convicted of domestic violence CANNOT openly carry a gun? |
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sirpuma Regular Member 
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trevorthebusdriver wrote: PMd jim675, got no reply. Will anyone have some at the Seattle dinner on Saturday? I will have some color copies on plain paper folded. I have 10 for myself and just printed up another 20  |
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Dave Workman Regular Member
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QuintinB wrote:Question: Am i right in understanding that ANYONE convicted of domestic violence CANNOT openly carry a gun? If you have a DV conviction, you can't even have a gun. Period. |
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Lumpia is so sarap!!! Regular Member 
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Thank you, it'll come in handy on my trip to WA next month! |
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Enoch Root Regular Member 
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Thank you very much for this. It's time we the people defend our rights, across the board. The first step in that direction is a clear and cognizant understanding of what they are. I have spoken to a retired LEO from another state who told me he would never apply for a CCP, CWP, or CPL. His reason stated: This is an abrogation of your constitutional right to Keep and BEAR arms. Your rights, once abrogated, can never be reclaimed. |
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Gene Beasley Regular Member
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Enoch Root wrote: I have spoken to a retired LEO from another state who told me he would never apply for a CCP, CWP, or CPL. His reason stated: This is an abrogation of your constitutional right to Keep and BEAR arms. Welcome to the board. I agree, to a certain extent, with the sentiment. I think the problem is that we have corporately gone along with the abrogation. Individually abstaining will neither change it nor make your life easier. I would not choose to comply with our state's ridiculous requirements for carry in a motor vehicle without a CPL. If you really want to get your dander up over abrogated rights, just look at the plethora of infringements from federal all the way down to local (such as Portland). But hey, it's easy to preach to the choir. |
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Dave Workman Regular Member
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Enoch Root wrote: Thank you very much for this. Your pal is not terribly bright, particularly for a retired cop. Even Mas Ayoob has written about how foolish this philosophy is, considering today's political environment. Perhaps being a retired cop, this guy figures he will skate on any gun beef, and maybe that would work in his state. To paraphrase: Your gun rights, once lost, can never be reclaimed. I don't particularly care for concealed carry "permits" or "licenses," but I REALLY don't care for jail food, dumbass attorneys who don't understand firearms law and will encourage you to plea bargain, or judges who are sticklers for the "letter of the law" when dealing with gun offenses, even misdemeanors. We have a system, it's not the best, but it is a lot better than most other states. There is no training requirement. A CPL enables same-day delivery of a newly purchased handgun, you are not required to immediately inform an LEO upon contact that you are packing, and a CPL flag does not automatically pop up when somebody runs your name on a traffic stop. A CPL is good for 5 years, we are one of the original "shall issue" states. http://www.danddgunleather.com/pages/washington_gun_rights.htm Last edited on Tue Feb 10th, 2009 02:56 pm by Dave Workman |
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Enoch Root Regular Member
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Dave, I'm a bit confused by your stance. On one hand you're posting on this OPEN CARRY fourm, yet you seem to feel everyone who carries a pistol needs a CPL. The law in our state does not require me to acquire one, and therefore I will not. I've OCed for several months now and have never had even one hassle with the public or the police. As for my pal, he was once honored with an award by President Ronald Reagan for being this nation's TOP COP for the year. To show you what kind of man he is, please read this: Biteme wrote:
I know that this article deals with Wisconsin exclusively however it follows my long time preaching that guns will not be illegal but we will all in one way or another become criminals or felons. "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost" And a right, once abrogated, is forever lost. Last edited on Sat Feb 28th, 2009 04:38 pm by Enoch Root |
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Jim675 Founder's Club Member
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Why'd this guy retire, surely he has another 10 years in him? |
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Dave Workman Regular Member
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Enoch Root wrote:Dave, You need to re-read my post. Carefully. It should remove any confusion. I always encourage people to get a CPL, just to have the damn thing. I'd much rather not have such a requirement for concealed carry, but since that's the law, I'll follow it. Someone who doesn't is simply asking for trouble that he doesn't need. This pal of yours, the retired copper in another state, how can he know that one day he will not run afoul of some local statute or ordinance where he is? Ayoob, I will submit, has a great deal more experience in the way the laws work, and the system works, than anybody I ever ran across. He's saved people from jail and seen others go there, perhaps tragically. |
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Enoch Root Regular Member
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Dave, I agree, a CPL does simplify some aspects of gun ownership. Please allow me to ask a dumb question: If, once you've acquired a CPL, you allow it to lapse; Does this in any way effect your future right to open-carry? ~ It seems to me it shouldn't. The Second Amendment makes no mention of requiring a weapons permit. In fact, weapons permits seem like an infringement of my rights..... A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. |
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NavyLT Regular Member
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Enoch Root wrote: If, once you've acquired a CPL, you allow it to lapse; Does this in any way effect your future right to open-carry? Not in Washington State. But then you must unload the gun when in your vehicle. |
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adamsesq Regular Member 
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Since we (actually Puddin99 with a bunch of people providing input) are in the process of upgrading Oregon's the question has come up regarding Federal Law and schools. Did you guys put any thought into putting that info in the pamphlet before you printed it? -adamsesq |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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that did not reAlly come up. We just focused on WA laws primarily. I have been thinking about whether or not it is time for a revision though next time. We have printed up 17,000 so far, and a good number of them have been distributed statewide. We put a lot of them out at the last gunshow here in Spokane. |
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Tomb Raider Regular Member
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Ok I'm new here and want to O/C as well. I would like a few of these pamplet's if I can. How do I get them ?? Tomb Raider.. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Let us know where you are and somebody local can probably put a few in your hand. |
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Dave Workman Regular Member
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Tomb Raider wrote: Ok I'm new here and want to O/C as well. I would like a few of these pamplet's if I can. How do I get them ?? You might want to get a copy of 'WASHINGTON STATE GUN RIGHTS & RESPONSIBILITIES' which goes into detail about state statutes, self-defense, CCW reciprocity, travel and more. |
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Tomb Raider Regular Member
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I live in the Arlington area. |
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Dave Workman Regular Member
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Tomb Raider wrote: I live in the Arlington area. Washington Gun Rights books are on sale at Kesselring's in Burlington |
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Tomb Raider Regular Member
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Bloody Hell I was just there AGAIN.. I've read that some of the O/C folks have given out pamplet info when grilled. Does one really need to do this or just know that O/C is allowed most place's ? |
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Dave Workman Regular Member
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Tomb Raider wrote: Bloody Hell I was just there AGAIN.. I've read that some of the O/C folks have given out pamplet info when grilled. Does one really need to do this or just know that O/C is allowed most place's ? It would be a good exercise to read Chapter Four of the book and its discussion of "State v' Spencer" and the Q&A on open carry at the end of that chapter. That section was vetted by a deputy prosecutor and former deputy prosecutor. The update, now in production, expands on O/C with a reference to the more recent State v. Casad. |
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Tomb Raider Regular Member
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Thanks for the info Dave, I still would like the free pampet that some have chatted about. I do need to make another run up North for more Ammo. |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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Don't worry, Dave's just pushing his book... that he authored... and gets royalties on. I don't have a problem with that, I just think that the basics can be and should be free to learn... yano, why we put together the pamphlet. If they want to learn the in-depth interpretations and whatnot, they are more than welcome to either start delving into RCW 9.41 or they can go grab Dave's book, as I've heard it's rather well-written. As for the pamphlets, we hand them out whenever we feel like it. If someone wants to "grill" me about OC, they'll likely get the cold shoulder and I'll walk away. I don't need to sit there and be berated for a legal activity. Now, if they want to just discuss it, I'm more than happy to go out of my way to educate someone on what I know of the law and toss a pamphlet their way. Also, you can download a PDF copy of the pamphlet over on NWCDL: http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=14 |
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M1Gunr Regular Member
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Tomb Raider wrote: Thanks for the info Dave, I still would like the free pampet that some have chatted about. I do need to make another run up North for more Ammo. See page one of this thread for the link: Free Washington Gun Rights Pamphlet.pdf |
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Ajetpilot Regular Member
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Dave's book is more thorough and an excellent reference work. The pamphlet complements Dave's book and is a quick reference guide. You might think of the book as a user's guide, and the pamphlet as a "quick start" brochure. I've got a copy of the book at home, which I review periodically, and I carry the pamphlets to give to the curious. I'm glad to hear that the revised edition of Dave's book will have a section on OC. Let us know when it is published. |
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RSO1911 Regular Member
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Enoch Root wrote: Dave,No CPL? So, every time your OCing, you unload and store your pistol when you get in a car? Because under Wa state law, you MUST have a CPL to maintain a loaded pistol in a vehicle... |
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RSO1911 Regular Member
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Just double checking, is it cool for me to print and distribute this pamphlet in a hand gun class I lead? |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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RSO1911 wrote:Just double checking, is it cool for me to print and distribute this pamphlet in a hand gun class I lead? Absolutely!! Please feel free to distribute as many copies as you can! |
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RSO1911 Regular Member
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Cool, thank you! |
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M1Gunr Regular Member
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I still have about 500 of the glossies available from the last print shop run. |
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kyle.huff Regular Member 
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First of all, let me say, thank you very much for this pamphlet, it is awesome and well arranged. Excellent job.. Secondly, forgive me if this has already been brought up.... In the section titled "FACTS ABOUT CARRYING A FIREARM", subsection 3 it reads: 3.) Unlawful carrying without a Concealed Pistol License (CPL) occurs when a person carries a concealed pistol on his person and does not have a CPL. A person may carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle only if they have a valid CPL. Those without a valid CPL may carry a firearm in a vehicle only if the firearm is unloaded and in a secure wrapper or opaque case. (RCW 9.41.050) In bold font is the part I believe to be untrue. RCW 9.41.050 lists no requirement for an unloaded pistol to be concealed from view unless you are leaving the vehicle. So, is this requirement listed in another unreferenced RCW? I have not been able to find anything on it - but I've spent so much time reading RCW's the last few weeks I think my ability to process legal mumbo-jumbo is about on par with my aim.. =c ) Here is the section of RCW 9.41.050 that speaks about an unloaded pistol in a vehicle by a person without a valid CPL: (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle. The key wording here being: ... leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle .... Link to RCW 9.41.050: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050 Please let me know if I am getting this wrong.. P.S., my wife hates that you have created this in color; as I use up all her printer ink! =c ) |
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John Hardin Regular Member
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kyle.huff wrote: Those without a valid CPL may carry a firearm in a vehicle You're correct. SurfJ, is this going to be changed? Just strike the "and in a secure wrapper or opaque case" part. If there's space, you might want to add something like: A pistol left unattended in a vehicle must be hidden from sight and the vehicle must be locked; the pistol may be left loaded only if owner has a CPL. The statute does not clearly suggest that a locked box inside an unlocked car is okay, since "locked within the vehicle" in other contexts means the vehicle itself is locked. However, the "secure wrapper" verbiage from 9.41.060 may cover that, so you might want to say: A pistol left unattended in a vehicle must be hidden from sight, and the vehicle must be locked or the pistol must be locked in a secure container; the pistol may be left loaded only if owner has a CPL. The "closed opaque case or secure wrapper" in 9.41.060 means carrying your pistol unloaded in its plastic shipping box in your backpack or purse does not require a CPL. Last edited on Sat Jun 13th, 2009 04:55 pm by John Hardin |
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Dave Workman Regular Member
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John Hardin wrote:
I am bit confused here. Are you under the impression that we can simply change the statute, "just like that?" Or are you talking about changing the wording in some pamphlet? |
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John Hardin Regular Member
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I'm talking about changing the wording in "FACTS ABOUT CARRYING A FIREARM", subsection 3 in the Firearms Rights Pamphlet that kyle.huff was commenting on in the post immediately prior to mine. |
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curlywolf Regular Member 
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I guess it's the "Old Retired English Teacher" in me, but I notice stuff. Under RCW 9.41.300-Weapons Prohibited in Certain Places..etc. in subparagraph (2) under (b) says..., except that such restrictions shall not apply to: (i) any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.70 or.... This should read 9.41.070 While reading the pamphlet, I went to the actual RCW, and there is no 9.41.70. Just a small typo, but I think it's important to be a accurate as possible. Last edited on Thu Aug 13th, 2009 05:19 am by curlywolf |
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Ajetpilot Regular Member
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Good catch! You should have been a proofreader for the Times. Welcome to the forum. |
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noname762 Regular Member
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About one week ago while perusing this forum I decided to make a phone call regarding open carry in my county. I called the Mt. Vernon Police Department at their 'non emergency' number. After talking for a few minutes to one of their commissioned officers I left my number for a call back. The officer who returned my call is one of their newest on the force with about 1 year of service. He assured me it was NOT the habit of MVPD to hassle LAC of their right to carry openly. He did admit that if a citizen "sheep" type of individual calls 911 with a report of MWAG they would dispatch a unit to that location. Upon realizing the LAC is practicing his/her 2A right to OC that person would not be cited. As an individual with a concealed carry permit who is unemployed at this time I find it prudent to NOT expose myself as a defender of OC or as a gun owning individual. I would like to participate in OC in my area with others of like mind but at this time I prefer to 'fly under the radar'. I am a recently new member here and enjoy this forum very much. Today has been my first opportunity to post and in the future I hope to post more often. |
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Lank Regular Member
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Nice work! Some of us from CT are thinking about making a pamphlet for our state now. |
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Skycries57 Regular Member
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Beautiful work! |
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curlywolf Regular Member
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I'm not trying to be a critic, but, are these changes we are suggesting actually being incorporated in the pamphlet? I'd really like to have a "clean" copy that I could reproduce to carry with me. Who is in charge of the modifications ?? Will this be put in a true pamphlet form and produced for sale?? I'd buy a lot of copies if they were around $.30-.50 each. Just my $.2 worth. |
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sudden valley gunner Regular Member 
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I haven't seen the OP on recently, PM him he will get the email of the PM. I have greatly enjoyed the pamphlet and will continue handing them out I still have quite a few. It would be better to get the most accuracy as possible though. |
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M1Gunr Regular Member
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curlywolf wrote: Will this be put in a true pamphlet form and produced for sale?? I'd buy a lot of copies if they were around $.30-.50 each. Just my $.2 worth. We have a professional printer in Seattle who prints these out on glossy paper and tri folds them for us. If you want to take the lead on the next run be my guest, the last run was 7000 copies & I did the last run. Contact me for info. |
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M1Gunr Regular Member
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Domain has been paid for and a very basic page is in place for now..... http://www.washingtongunrights.com |
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curlywolf Regular Member
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But it still has not been corrected. (i) any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.70 or.... This should read 9.41.070 While reading the pamphlet, I went to the actual RCW, and there is no 9.41.70. Just a small typo, but I think it's important to be a accurate as possible. I missed this the first time by getting all focused on 9.41.70, but there is a typo in the next sentence, too. Instead of 9.41.60, it should read 9.41.060. IMHO, both changes need to be made for clarity and correctness. Last edited on Thu Sep 24th, 2009 07:57 am by curlywolf |
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NavyLT Regular Member
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And the correction to the section regarding transportation of an unloaded firearm in a vehicle by a person without a CPL needs to be corrected as well. There is no requirement for the firearm to be in a case or other secure wrapper. The firearm merely cannot be loaded and cannot be concealed on the person. |
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M1Gunr Regular Member
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I understand the need for the changes but someone has access to the unlocked version of the PDF and that person is NOT me. I had an opportunity to register the domain name very cheaply and took advantage of it. Last edited on Thu Sep 24th, 2009 08:57 pm by M1Gunr |
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NavyLT Regular Member
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Thanks M1Gunr, we do appreciate your efforts. Any idea how to obtain the editable .pdf file? Actually, does anyone know if the .pdf file actually contains text characters or is it an image type file? |
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curlywolf Regular Member
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So where is surfj9009? Shouldn't he be the one with the editable file? This whole process puzzles me. |
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RichardDavies Regular Member
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NavyLT wrote: Any idea how to obtain the editable .pdf file? Actually, does anyone know if the .pdf file actually contains text characters or is it an image type file? It's actual text (not just an image of text.) |
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RichardDavies Regular Member
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M1Gunr wrote: Domain has been paid for and a very basic page is in place for now..... Great idea! However, I would suggest placing a link on the page to download the PDF. Also, you might want to consider placing the text from the pamphlet on the page somehow (in other words, embed the actual text in the page's HTML code). That way the site will get better search engine rankings. P.S. I'm a web developer and would be glad to help out in any way if necessary. |
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RichardDavies Regular Member
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NavyLT wrote: Any idea how to obtain the editable .pdf file? Here you go (thanks to an online pdf -> word converter). Attachment: Free Washington Gun Rights Pamphlet.doc (Downloaded 51 times) |
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NavyLT Regular Member
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RichardDavies wrote: NavyLT wrote:Any idea how to obtain the editable .pdf file? Thanks! There is a new thread I started with the 3 corrections made that we have noted so far. I'll work on cleaning up the fonts and such and make everything more uniform throughout the document. There is only a PDF of the corrected version so far. Unless anyone has an objection to me working on this. Last edited on Fri Sep 25th, 2009 11:47 pm by NavyLT |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Hey guys!!!! Look who is back. Thanks RichardDaviesfor getting that done. I have been off here and busy with a lot of other things until now. I will try to stick around more often. Last edited on Sat Sep 26th, 2009 02:27 am by surfj9009 |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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PS I still have the original file that was used before if somebody wants it. It is not a word file though, but an OpenOffice file. |
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joeroket Regular Member
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Surf, I would love to have a copy of the original. Could you send it to me at joeroket (at) nwcdl.org Thanks a bunch. |
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surfj9009 Regular Member
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Just sent it to ya joe |
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joeroket Regular Member
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Thanks Surfj. |
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Brown Labs Regular Member 
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Excellent. Thanks for the PDF. |
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RymRytr Regular Member
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I've had CWP for over 40 years. Went for renewal and the Lady corrected me: "It's a CPL." I'm sure I've lost some more "rights" with this move... |
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pistolero57 Regular Member
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Maybe this is a new topic? I have studied the Washington laws (RCW 9.41.050 and 060) over and over to try to see if I really understand the law. The way I read it is: In the absence of a concealed carry permit... If the gun (pistol, rifle, or shotgun - it doesn't matter which) is loaded, it has be unloaded when it is placed inside of a vehicle. Period. Even with a concealed carrry permit, rifles and shotguns cannot be carried loaded in a vehicle (right?) If the pistol (specifically) is loaded, and carried, it has to be carried openly. There is no Washington law that specifically authorizes it. It is just that no Washington law has stated otherwise. But... If the pistol (specifically) is UNloaded, and carried, it has to be carried concealed. It is against Washington law to carry an UNloaded pistol openly. (See RCW 9.41.060 (9)) Therefore RCW 9.41.060 forces people to carry loaded pistols out in the open. This is the craziest, most bass ackwards, set of gun carry laws I have ever read. Imagine this common scenario... I decide to take my pistol with me on a business trip from Vancouver to Olympia. I don't have a concealed carry permit. Since it is legal to carry a loaded pistol in my home (or fixed place of business) I can carry the pistol loaded right up until I decide to place it inside of my car. At that moment I have to unload it and conceal it. While I am driving the pistol has to remain UNloaded and concealed. As soon as I arrive at my destination I have to step out of the car with my still-concealed UNloaded pistol and immediately load it again and holster it in my open-carry holster. Otherwise I have to leave it UNloaded and concealed. If I leave it in the car I have to make sure the car is locked up too. (If I have read the Washington law wrong please correct me!) Based on what I just wrote, it is safe to assume that, any time you see a pistol being carried openly, it is loaded. Also based on what I wrote, it must be perfectly legal to carry an UNloaded pistol in my pants pocket if I want to. (Never mind that the bulge usually gives away what's in there.) It is also legal for me to carry a loaded magazine or speedloader in my other pocket (right?) It just can't be in the gun (automatic.) Also, I can carry my pistol UNloaded, in my coat pocket or pants pocket the entire time while I'm driving, right? I can also have a loaded magazine or speedloader just sitting there, out in the open, on the car seat or dashboard too, right? Am I reading these crazy laws right? HELP! |
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NavyLT Regular Member
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No, you are not quite reading the law correctly. Look a couple threads down at the updated gun rights pamphlet which has the correct vehicle carry section updated. If the updated pamphlet doesn't answer your question, post it as a new thread and we'll help more! Last edited on Fri Nov 13th, 2009 12:53 am by NavyLT |
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911Boss Regular Member 
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pistolero57 wrote: Maybe this is a new topic? I have studied the Washington laws (RCW 9.41.050 and 060) over and over to try to see if I really understand the law. The way I read it is: CORRECT pistolero57 wrote: ...In the absence of a concealed carry permit... CORRECT pistolero57 wrote: ...In the absence of a concealed carry permit... INCORRECT RCW 9.41.060 describes EXCEPTIONS to the restrictions of RCW 9.41.050, it does not require or "force" anything. RCW 9.41.050 says you cannot carry a pistol concealed "on your person". Case law has been pretty clear to include "about your person", such as in a purse or briefcase, as well if it was readily accessible. What 9.41.060 does is clarify the intent that someone carrying a cased or wrapped and unloaded pistol (such as to or from the range, or to home after purchase) isn't "concealing" but rather transporting it and when carried in such fashion it should not be considered "on your person". If it is unloaded and in a purse or briefcase I think you would also be considered legal since it doesn't really specify requirements for the case or wrapper. pistolero57 wrote: ...In the absence of a concealed carry permit... INCORRECT While you are in your vehicle, the UNloaded weapon does not have to be concealed. Side note- You need to be very cautious when transitioning from loaded to unloaded and vice versa. Someone observing you drawing and loading or clearing could reasonably be alarmed depending on the circumstances, and that could leave you susceptible to a beef under RCW 9.41.270 (1). Some folks will OC without a round in the chamber and just remove or insert the magazine so the pistol can remain in the holster (known as "Israeli Carry"). pistolero57 wrote: ...Based on what I just wrote, it is safe to assume that, any time you see a pistol being carried openly, it is loaded. Your starting to go off path. ANY time you see ANY pistol, one should assume it is loaded (Firearm safety Rule #1- Treat ALL firearms as if they are loaded). As far as the LAW goes, there is nothing that specifies when a gun HAS to be loaded. Only times and situation when it CAN'T be. pistolero57 wrote: ...Also based on what I wrote, it must be perfectly legal to carry an UNloaded pistol in my pants pocket if I want to. (Never mind that the bulge usually gives away what's in there.) It is also legal for me to carry a loaded magazine or speedloader in my other pocket (right?) It just can't be in the gun (automatic.) INCORRECT Once the gun goes in the pocket of clothing you are wearing, it becomes, without any doubt, "on your person". Clothing is clothing, not a "opaque case or wrapper". If it is in clothing you are wearing, then it is "concealed on your person" It is absolutely legal to carry ammo in a speed loader or magazine as there are no restrictions in this state on the carrying of ammo. Whether the pistol is loaded or not doesn't matter for RCW 9.41.050. If it is concealed on your person and you do not have a CPL, you are in violation. Now you might be able to make a case for a pistol in a coat pocket of a coat you are NOT wearing, but I don't think I would want to go that close to the line. Yes, ammo can be in plain view, again no restrictions in this state on carrying ammo whatsoever. pistolero57 wrote: ...Am I reading these crazy laws right? HELP! Some yes, but the really important ones? - No. Edited to correct error pointed out by NavyLT Last edited on Fri Nov 13th, 2009 04:10 pm by 911Boss |
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NavyLT Regular Member
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pistolero57 wrote: I decide to take my pistol with me on a business trip from Vancouver to Olympia. I don't have a concealed carry permit. Since it is legal to carry a loaded pistol in my home (or fixed place of business) I can carry the pistol loaded right up until I decide to place it inside of my car. At that moment I have to unload it and conceal it. While I am driving the pistol has to remain UNloaded and concealed. As soon as I arrive at my destination I have to step out of the car with my still-concealed UNloaded pistol and immediately load it again and holster it in my open-carry holster. Otherwise I have to leave it UNloaded and concealed. If I leave it in the car I have to make sure the car is locked up too. 911Boss, you said the above was correct and it is NOT correct. There is NO requirement to conceal an unloaded pistol in the vehicle, if the vehicle is occupied. If the vehicle is occupied the unloaded pistol can be ANYWHERE either openly visible or concealed EXCEPT that it CANNOT be concealed ON THE PERSON. When the person leaves the unloaded pistol in the vehicle UNATTENDED - that is when it must be concealed and the vehicle locked. (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle. Notice RCW 9.41.050 (3)(a) does not say "carry" or "transport", it says "leave" as in unattended. Last edited on Fri Nov 13th, 2009 04:42 am by NavyLT |
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911Boss Regular Member
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NavyLT wrote: pistolero57 wrote:I decide to take my pistol with me on a business trip from Vancouver to Olympia. I don't have a concealed carry permit. Since it is legal to carry a loaded pistol in my home (or fixed place of business) I can carry the pistol loaded right up until I decide to place it inside of my car. At that moment I have to unload it and conceal it. While I am driving the pistol has to remain UNloaded and concealed. As soon as I arrive at my destination I have to step out of the car with my still-concealed UNloaded pistol and immediately load it again and holster it in my open-carry holster. Otherwise I have to leave it UNloaded and concealed. If I leave it in the car I have to make sure the car is locked up too. Good catch, I spaced on the concealed part. I have to admit my head was throbbing after reading his posts.... Yes, only needs to be concealed if left unattended in the car. Original reply edited. |
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tyguy808 Regular Member
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You guys know what sucks? That newbie asked that question here on the 12th, he obviously didn't like the answers you gave him, so he started a new post not thirty minutes later asking the same exact thing. He suckered me into that very same debate today. I went on for over an hour, "just get your CPL", "here are the ways around it" and even "Welcome Aboard". Now I'm feeling really bad about all of it. Stupid newbie-Anti! OMG, dude, if you're not getting the answers that you want (we all pretty much feel the same way), go find an anti site to find the answer that you're looking for. ETA: Why didn't one of you stop me? ETA II: Stupid grammar again, dang its a bad day. The first sentence is a run-on, but, I can't figure out how to fix it. So, oh well! Last edited on Sat Nov 14th, 2009 09:24 am by tyguy808 |
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