| Author | Post |
|---|
machron1
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 32 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 03:46 am |
|
Sad, you say? Why? Why would anyone want to get into an argument with LEO's? It is a no win situation and, BTW, I am not one of those but, I have a lot of respect for anyone willing to take on that job.
If someone is going to carry just to see how far they can go and then not co-operate with LEO's, he or she needs some professional help in the worest way. A person could wind up dead thataway.
Colorado
The fact that someone would think they would have to "push it" to enjoy any of his/her god given rights proves our rights as of yet have not been respected by police for a very long time. Note that at no time, regardless of intention or expected outcome, did he do anything illegal.
That said, to the OP, walking around with your "bug out bag" is just telling the cops you are a member of the tin hat brigade, and if something happens to explode near you, guess who's door they are going to come knocking on? And then it's off to the FEMA camp for you! I mean, say your worst nightmare happens, and martial law is declared. Why would you want to be on the cop's short list of suspected "terrorists?" The best way to hide is in plain sight, fully assimilated into society. Because guess what? NOT having ID, etc. is less anonymous than having one. If EVERYONE has a SSN and ID, then you are just another inconspicuous cog in the machine. Just some food for thought...
|
colorado slick
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 66 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 04:11 pm |
|
machron1 wrote:
Sad, you say? Why? Why would anyone want to get into an argument with LEO's? It is a no win situation and, BTW, I am not one of those but, I have a lot of respect for anyone willing to take on that job.
If someone is going to carry just to see how far they can go and then not co-operate with LEO's, he or she needs some professional help in the worest way. A person could wind up dead thataway.
Colorado
The fact that someone would think they would have to "push it" to enjoy any of his/her god given rights proves our rights as of yet have not been respected by police for a very long time. Note that at no time, regardless of intention or expected outcome, did he do anything illegal.
That said, to the OP, walking around with your "bug out bag" is just telling the cops you are a member of the tin hat brigade, and if something happens to explode near you, guess who's door they are going to come knocking on? And then it's off to the FEMA camp for you! I mean, say your worst nightmare happens, and martial law is declared. Why would you want to be on the cop's short list of suspected "terrorists?" The best way to hide is in plain sight, fully assimilated into society. Because guess what? NOT having ID, etc. is less anonymous than having one. If EVERYONE has a SSN and ID, then you are just another inconspicuous cog in the machine. Just some food for thought...
Machron1...This all struck me as rather strange. I have never known anyone who does not have a SS card or drivers license. I'll have to research the statutes here in Colorado but I THINK one is required to have ID and produce such when requested. I believe as well but not sure that LEO's do have the authority to make such a request and that one is required to produce that ID. Again, I am not sure and will research it.
But, why not? The person who posted the message sounded as though he/she was known to that cop. The question is...Why was he/she known. It sounds as though there is a smoldering ember there. Just my thoughts on the subject. As for me and others in Colorado: If we are toting a shooter the cops do have the right to ask for a CCW if one is carrying concealed and they have the authority to request/demand a photo ID. That is our state law. Also, each town/city does have the right to ban open carry which, like Denver, some do. But, you can be sure that as you stroll along the street with that shooter on your hip, you are going to be stopped and asked for a permit and you are required to produce it otherwise it is a misdemeaner or, if you don't have one, you are going to be asked why you are carrying a firearm then, the next block down, the same thing will happen again, and again, and again.
But, again: What's wrong with having an ID?
Colorado
|
Gunslinger
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 05:29 pm |
|
colorado slick wrote: machron1 wrote:
Sad, you say? Why? Why would anyone want to get into an argument with LEO's? It is a no win situation and, BTW, I am not one of those but, I have a lot of respect for anyone willing to take on that job.
If someone is going to carry just to see how far they can go and then not co-operate with LEO's, he or she needs some professional help in the worest way. A person could wind up dead thataway.
Colorado
The fact that someone would think they would have to "push it" to enjoy any of his/her god given rights proves our rights as of yet have not been respected by police for a very long time. Note that at no time, regardless of intention or expected outcome, did he do anything illegal.
That said, to the OP, walking around with your "bug out bag" is just telling the cops you are a member of the tin hat brigade, and if something happens to explode near you, guess who's door they are going to come knocking on? And then it's off to the FEMA camp for you! I mean, say your worst nightmare happens, and martial law is declared. Why would you want to be on the cop's short list of suspected "terrorists?" The best way to hide is in plain sight, fully assimilated into society. Because guess what? NOT having ID, etc. is less anonymous than having one. If EVERYONE has a SSN and ID, then you are just another inconspicuous cog in the machine. Just some food for thought...
Machron1...This all struck me as rather strange. I have never known anyone who does not have a SS card or drivers license. I'll have to research the statutes here in Colorado but I THINK one is required to have ID and produce such when requested. I believe as well but not sure that LEO's do have the authority to make such a request and that one is required to produce that ID. Again, I am not sure and will research it.
But, why not? The person who posted the message sounded as though he/she was known to that cop. The question is...Why was he/she known. It sounds as though there is a smoldering ember there. Just my thoughts on the subject. As for me and others in Colorado: If we are toting a shooter the cops do have the right to ask for a CCW if one is carrying concealed and they have the authority to request/demand a photo ID. That is our state law. Also, each town/city does have the right to ban open carry which, like Denver, some do. But, you can be sure that as you stroll along the street with that shooter on your hip, you are going to be stopped and asked for a permit and you are required to produce it otherwise it is a misdemeaner or, if you don't have one, you are going to be asked why you are carrying a firearm then, the next block down, the same thing will happen again, and again, and again.
But, again: What's wrong with having an ID?
Colorado
Cities/towns in CO may not ban OC with the exception of Denver County's grandfathered ordinance. And excepting Denver, none do. That is state preemption which is the law in CO. Only in the specifically described government buildings with metal detectors at the entrance. No photo ID is required beyond the CCW, which has a photo. Cops may ask for it, if your 'concealement' is not very good, and they have a reasonable suspicion you're carrying. Once you show them, that's the end of it. AMF.
|
colorado slick
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 66 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 06:45 pm |
|
Gunslinger wrote: colorado slick wrote: machron1 wrote:
Sad, you say? Why? Why would anyone want to get into an argument with LEO's? It is a no win situation and, BTW, I am not one of those but, I have a lot of respect for anyone willing to take on that job.
If someone is going to carry just to see how far they can go and then not co-operate with LEO's, he or she needs some professional help in the worest way. A person could wind up dead thataway.
Colorado
The fact that someone would think they would have to "push it" to enjoy any of his/her god given rights proves our rights as of yet have not been respected by police for a very long time. Note that at no time, regardless of intention or expected outcome, did he do anything illegal.
That said, to the OP, walking around with your "bug out bag" is just telling the cops you are a member of the tin hat brigade, and if something happens to explode near you, guess who's door they are going to come knocking on? And then it's off to the FEMA camp for you! I mean, say your worst nightmare happens, and martial law is declared. Why would you want to be on the cop's short list of suspected "terrorists?" The best way to hide is in plain sight, fully assimilated into society. Because guess what? NOT having ID, etc. is less anonymous than having one. If EVERYONE has a SSN and ID, then you are just another inconspicuous cog in the machine. Just some food for thought...
Machron1...This all struck me as rather strange. I have never known anyone who does not have a SS card or drivers license. I'll have to research the statutes here in Colorado but I THINK one is required to have ID and produce such when requested. I believe as well but not sure that LEO's do have the authority to make such a request and that one is required to produce that ID. Again, I am not sure and will research it.
But, why not? The person who posted the message sounded as though he/she was known to that cop. The question is...Why was he/she known. It sounds as though there is a smoldering ember there. Just my thoughts on the subject. As for me and others in Colorado: If we are toting a shooter the cops do have the right to ask for a CCW if one is carrying concealed and they have the authority to request/demand a photo ID. That is our state law. Also, each town/city does have the right to ban open carry which, like Denver, some do. But, you can be sure that as you stroll along the street with that shooter on your hip, you are going to be stopped and asked for a permit and you are required to produce it otherwise it is a misdemeaner or, if you don't have one, you are going to be asked why you are carrying a firearm then, the next block down, the same thing will happen again, and again, and again.
But, again: What's wrong with having an ID?
Colorado
Cities/towns in CO may not ban OC with the exception of Denver County's grandfathered ordinance. And excepting Denver, none do. That is state preemption which is the law in CO. Only in the specifically described government buildings with metal detectors at the entrance. No photo ID is required beyond the CCW, which has a photo. Cops may ask for it, if your 'concealement' is not very good, and they have a reasonable suspicion you're carrying. Once you show them, that's the end of it. AMF.
Gunslinger, you are talking about the exemption law concerning CCW. I am talking about open carry. In Colorado, we have home rule which does give towns and citys the right to ban open carry. BTW! I am all for open carry and do so most of the time. I don't have anything small enough to really conceal.
Colorado
|
Comp-tech
State Researcher
| Joined: | Tue Apr 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 935 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 6th, 2008 06:27 am |
|
colorado slick wrote: Gunslinger, you are talking about the exemption law concerning CCW. I am talking about open carry. In Colorado, we have home rule which does give towns and citys the right to ban open carry. BTW! I am all for open carry and do so most of the time. I don't have anything small enough to really conceal.
Colorado
Sorry Mr. Slick....you misunderstand the preemption laws....."cities and towns" (other than Denver) cannot completely ban OC....
***Section 29-11.7-101 refers to the regulation of firearms as a matter of "statewide concern," and declares a need for statewide uniformity of regulation in the area of firearms. That section also declares that inconsistency among local jurisdictions has an extraterritorial impact on state citizens and the general public.***
***The state concealed weapons act provides in its legislative findings that "t is necessary that the state occupy the field of regulation of the bearing of concealed handguns." Section 18-12-201(1)(e). However, local governments may still enact regulations prohibiting the open carrying of firearms in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction, as long as the local government posts signs to that effect. Section 29-11.7-104.***
|
colorado slick
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 66 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 6th, 2008 04:31 pm |
|
Comp-tech wrote: colorado slick wrote: Gunslinger, you are talking about the exemption law concerning CCW. I am talking about open carry. In Colorado, we have home rule which does give towns and citys the right to ban open carry. BTW! I am all for open carry and do so most of the time. I don't have anything small enough to really conceal.
Colorado
Sorry Mr. Slick....you misundp tech. I am not a lawyererstand the preemption laws....."cities and towns" (other than Denver) cannot completely ban OC....
***Section 29-11.7-101 refers to the regulation of firearms as a matter of "statewide concern," and declares a need for statewide uniformity of regulation in the area of firearms. That section also declares that inconsistency among local jurisdictions has an extraterritorial impact on state citizens and the general public.***
***The state concealed weapons act provides in its legislative findings that "t is necessary that the state occupy the field of regulation of the bearing of concealed handguns." Section 18-12-201(1)(e). However, local governments may still enact regulations prohibiting the open carrying of firearms in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction, as long as the local government posts signs to that effect. Section 29-11.7-104.***
You may very well be right comp tech. I am not a lawyer
Colorado
|
Doug Huffman
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Oct 6th, 2008 06:49 pm |
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify
States with “stop-and-identify” statutes There is no federal law requiring that an individual identify himself during a Terry stop. Hiibel merely established that states and localities have the right to pass laws requiring people to identify themselves under those conditions.
[ ...]
Colorado Colo. Rev. Stat. §16-3-103(1)
http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=query&iid=3c5c6626.323a2fb1.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%2716-3-103%27%5D
|
Gunslinger
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Oct 6th, 2008 10:48 pm |
|
colorado slick wrote: Comp-tech wrote: colorado slick wrote: Gunslinger, you are talking about the exemption law concerning CCW. I am talking about open carry. In Colorado, we have home rule which does give towns and citys the right to ban open carry. BTW! I am all for open carry and do so most of the time. I don't have anything small enough to really conceal.
Colorado
Sorry Mr. Slick....you misundp tech. I am not a lawyererstand the preemption laws....."cities and towns" (other than Denver) cannot completely ban OC....
***Section 29-11.7-101 refers to the regulation of firearms as a matter of "statewide concern," and declares a need for statewide uniformity of regulation in the area of firearms. That section also declares that inconsistency among local jurisdictions has an extraterritorial impact on state citizens and the general public.***
***The state concealed weapons act provides in its legislative findings that "t is necessary that the state occupy the field of regulation of the bearing of concealed handguns." Section 18-12-201(1)(e). However, local governments may still enact regulations prohibiting the open carrying of firearms in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction, as long as the local government posts signs to that effect. Section 29-11.7-104.***
You may very well be right comp tech. I am not a lawyer
Colorado
State preemption applies to all gun laws, not just CCW. Towns cannot make any law with respect to firearms outside of the limited parameters in the state statutes. Only Denver County was grandfathered--and they only for OC. They have the same laws on firearms as the rest of the state in every other respect.
|
KSDeputy
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Jul 10th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 14 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 28th, 2009 10:31 pm |
|
I'm wondering what I would have done when you described the contents of your bug out bag, had I been the officer there. From just reading it, I think it's funny. In fact I am still laughing as I type this.
|
ComSec
Campaign Veteran
|
Posted: Wed Jul 29th, 2009 01:55 am |
|
Good Times, have grown to love the OPD they never stop amusing me LOL pity I dont live there anymore
|
LtColDaddy
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 11th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 5 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 07:31 am |
|
I don't want to make LE officers uncomfortable, or civilians. If you choose to legally open carry, just state your case politely, and physically make yourself as low threat as possible.
Not sure about the off grid lifestyle you live, to each their own. I get the fact that we are way off course concerning government, and having a SSN shoved down our throat is not "American" in spirit, but we are so far down the road... who cares. I have to use mine, as a Marine, as a business person etc... More power to ya I guess.
I do not have a law degree in Kansas, but in CA I know they can search that bag if they damn well please for the sake of officer safety. Perhaps any criminal evidence found might not be admissable in court, but quite frankly I think a good officer WOULD have searched it, for your own safety. When a LE officer if facing the unknown and potential threats, the odds of deadly force go way up, so clearing the bag would have been the right move.
If you don't want a DL, fine, DON'T DRIVE. Your free to move about without constraint, JUST NOT IN A CAR, so your rights aren't being violated.
You just spook me kid, you'll attract more bees with honey than you will with a rebellious attitude that, well... quite frankly strikes me as the behavior of someone who isn't well.
|
ComSec
Campaign Veteran
|
Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 08:16 am |
|
This was my first stop ever while OCing, yea I was push as many buttons as I could, I have since calmed way down, I never gave ANY reason for him to be able to search me and I would let him.
California is another world to me (grew up there and lived there 6 years ago after the I got out of the army, ) frankly the people there are out right slaves to the system
yea I have different views on things, I believe Cops are servants to US, and when they don't believe that them selves, well like most politicians there will never be enough rope.
now I would be happy to have my rights violated after all there the ones that get the bail outs I want my share LOL
oh and Officer Safety does not come before mine ANYTIME and I will and have told them that, If they get mine I get theres only fare,
Note: I will never step foot in CA again due to the laws, if I cant have my gun, they can keep there police state
Oh I am cool with cops, most are very nice, but I hate guys that think there better than everyone else because they have a badge
Last edited on Sun Oct 11th, 2009 08:18 am by ComSec
|
kwikrnu
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed May 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | Tennessee USA |
| Posts: | 92 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 03:59 pm |
|
| To the OP, why did you talk with the police for 45 minutes? I'd suggest do not talk to the cops. You're telling them about living off the grid, your political views and what you have in your backpack. If you're required to ID yourself then do it. If not ask if you're being detained and if not walk away. Never volunteer information.
|
kwikrnu
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed May 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | Tennessee USA |
| Posts: | 92 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 04:06 pm |
|
LtColDaddy wrote: I do not have a law degree in Kansas, but in CA I know they can search that bag if they damn well please for the sake of officer safety. Perhaps any criminal evidence found might not be admissable in court, but quite frankly I think a good officer WOULD have searched it, for your own safety. When a LE officer if facing the unknown and potential threats, the odds of deadly force go way up, so clearing the bag would have been the right move.
So, cops in CA can stop people and search them for simply walking down the street while not doing anything illegal? You're the lawyer, not me, but that doesn't sound right.
|
LtColDaddy
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 11th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 5 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 04:25 pm |
|
We don't think all that differently comsec. Hey, your own safety has to be most important to you. I'll tell ya what happened to me with the Oceanside Police Department. I got a CCW in CA, they are very hard to get! You have to go to the local sheriff and beg. Each application is 100% case by case, their is no out right legal right to apply for.
I was stopped, the officer asked me if I had any guns, knives, grendades, or other things that could hurt him. I let him know that I did legally have a .45 on my person. He stepped back and his hand went to the ready position to draw his firearm, and he ordered me out of the truck felony style. Another officer put me in cuffs and removed my firearm. ALL OF THAT I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH! But they didn't handle my weapon safely, I was in from of the muzzle of a cocked and locked .45, MY OWN! It was very sketchy for a second, but I calmly spoke to the officer asking him to please clear the weapon and make it safe, as their is a round in the chamber, and it has a very light trigger. So he hit the mag release and his FINGER WAS ON THE TRIGGER! Then he pulled back the slide and cleared it. But for a second, I was very nervous.
In the end we all ended up laughing and joking, but I was made to feel very uncomfortable for awhile until I was all sorted out, because quite frankly, the officer was not all that knowlegable in safe gun handleing. I am rightfully anal about safety. At times I don't carry with a load in the chamber anymore if I get to thinking about that day, and I might start carrying a double action 9mm with a really hard trigger pull in case I'm ever in that scenerio again. You'd be surprised how many LEO's really aren't all that good with guns. They know how to qualify, and minimum that their departments make them know, and that's it.
|
ComSec
Campaign Veteran
|
Posted: Sun Oct 11th, 2009 05:41 pm |
|
kwikrnu wrote: To the OP, why did you talk with the police for 45 minutes? I'd suggest do not talk to the cops. You're telling them about living off the grid, your political views and what you have in your backpack. If you're required to ID yourself then do it. If not ask if you're being detained and if not walk away. Never volunteer information.
I know but I was pushing there buttons, why told me they were looking for something to get me on, I new I was 100% Legal, I was just having fun with them, alot has changed since then,
|
Grey Wolf
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Oct 15th, 2009 04:21 am |
|
ComSec wrote: This was my first stop ever while OCing, yea I was push as many buttons as I could, I have since calmed way down, I never gave ANY reason for him to be able to search me and I would let him.
California is another world to me (grew up there and lived there 6 years ago after the I got out of the army, ) frankly the people there are out right slaves to the system
yea I have different views on things, I believe Cops are servants to US, and when they don't believe that them selves, well like most politicians there will never be enough rope.
now I would be happy to have my rights violated after all there the ones that get the bail outs I want my share LOL
oh and Officer Safety does not come before mine ANYTIME and I will and have told them that, If they get mine I get theres only fare,
Note: I will never step foot in CA again due to the laws, if I cant have my gun, they can keep there police state
Oh I am cool with cops, most are very nice, but I hate guys that think there better than everyone else because they have a badge
I usually lurk on this forum because there is a lot of useful info, but I had to register and comment on this tread.
"Ok I'll tell you about me Im 24 and clean cut"
At the beginning you state you are 24...and you got out of the military 6 years ago?
Either:
a. you couldn't hack it in the military and you don't deserve the name Com Sec
b. are a 16 yr old just looking for attention
c. you are a liar
Go spin your story on facebook.
-greywolf
|
ComSec
Campaign Veteran
|
Posted: Thu Oct 15th, 2009 05:01 am |
|
look at the OP date jackass
Last edited on Thu Oct 15th, 2009 05:02 am by ComSec
|
ComSec
Campaign Veteran
|
Posted: Thu Oct 15th, 2009 05:17 am |
|
oh yea I got medded out unfortunately, and cant re-up do to deafness in one ear, thanks for rubbing the salt in that wound
|
Current time is 07:44 am | Page:   1 2 3 |
|
|
|
